I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread, let's talk about it here

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Carl1h

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This is a continuation from a discussion in this thread:
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42051

Moved it here so that the discussion could continue without derailing the other thread. I'm referencing my post here and the general discussion that followed, also.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=787671&postcount=48

We return to our discussion, in progress...

You are a BHM and I am a BBW. Here we are, discussing a topic--just one human being to another, like regular folks do, without any regard to whether each of us finds the other attractive.
I agree there, who we find attractive isn't an issue, how we treat is other is the issue.

But I have to say that a bunch of fat women telling me that as a fat man my feelings are less important than their own doesn't exactly make me feel particularly accepted....
Could you point me to where that was said, specifically? I'm not trying to argue with you, I'd like to see it for myself, in print. When I see it, then I could possibly argue for your points, not against them (not that that is my intent, anyway).
No one actually said that, I felt like they had, though. After I posted against that Hot Boy thread there were women from the main boards who I had never seen on the FFA/BHM board come to argue for the existence of the hot boy thread, seemingly so that we could know how wrong we were. Of course there were also women who came to let us know they thought we were right, but overall it did leave me with the feeling that the enforcers had come to visit.

...if you want the fat guys to post more on the other boards here you should be prepared to accept their opinions without deriding them for feeling threatened.

Your statement here about that thread is, IMO, an example of how the female majority polices the boards and marginalizes other voices.
Huh?

I had no particular thread in mind when I wrote what I did. I don't keep up with things here in that great of detail, as a rule. I was only speaking of a general sentiment that I sense here in general.
I was the one who started complaining about the hot boy thread, and I thought you mentioned the hot boy thread in your response to my post here because you knew that I had brought it up and still had some axe to grind against me about it. I see that I was wrong about that and that I was being too defensive.

If some fat chicks want to nurture a thread about non-BHMs they find attractive, or, conversely, if the BHMs nurture a thread about non-BBWs they find attractive, why should the people who are not included in that particular thread take it so personally, and feel so threatened?
It was you who brought up a specific thread. I had to click on the link you provided to know what you were referring to. You know, I want to appreciate the points you're trying to make about how the majority's voice is heard louder and all that stuff, but then you lost me with your accusations. Please explain how I was doing whatever it is you seem to think I was doing. You started a thread, something you said in your OP sparked an interest for me to respond, because I have questions, so I posted...isn't that how this board stuff works?
I didn't bring up the hot boy thread, you brought it up, and you brought up the subject of why people take that thread personally or feel threatened. I would say I feel marginalized by it... threatened seems like a word that is chosen to make someone else sound weak. Whether or not you knew that you were complaining about me, you were in fact complaining about me and I wanted my to bring in my side without hi-jacking the poll thread, the best way I thought I could do that was to link to my original post about it.

If I think that a thread idolizing skinny people as objects of desire is out of place on a fat acceptance site, does that mean I am not welcome?
No. Why should it? All it means is that you have an opinion, just as everyone else here. You have a right to feel that your opinion is valid, it doesn't mean that you can or should expect everyone to agree with that opinion. I for one don't have a problem at all with who or what people want to idolize on this site. Personally I feel that (speaking as one person with one opinion about this one thing you have to say...if this is truly how you feel)...
...a thread idolizing skinny people as objects of desire is out of place on a fat acceptance site...
...is unrealistic, among other things. There. I said it. I took issue with one thing you said. It wasn't a complete devaluement of you as a human being, or you as a BHM, or your attractiveness or desirability or what have you--What does any of that have to do with this one thing you said?

I don't understand what you want or expect everyone else to do by making such a statement. Fat people aren't the only ones who frequent Dimensions. That's a fact. Fat people are not, by virtue of their being fat, attracted solely to fat people. That's a fact. What would you have Conrad do--issue some sort decree in a booming, biblical pharaoh-type voice, something like, "There Shalt Be No Idolizing of Skinnies in Dimensionsland. It is Done." *commence thunder and lightning* Speaking of Conrad--you know, the guy who created this site, lo those many years ago--have you seen him? He's a skinny dude! And--and--a bunch of folks here, women and men, fat and skinny, think he's attractive! The horrors!
I said before that a thread full of pictures of the FAs here, whatever their size or of the significant others, whatever their size, would (IMO) be perfectly fine, because this is the only place you're going to see that, and the FAs are part of the community (I doubt that any of those hot celebrities are). Is it really so hard to find pictures of hot celebrities that there has to pictures of them, not just everywhere else, but here as well? Am I the only person who sees these sort of places as a refuge of sorts? I don't look at those pictures and see anyone there that looks like me, and yet somehow, I am not supposed to take away the message that people like me aren't hot? The message that because I am fat, I am not hot, is a negative message that I can find most anyplace, I come to places like this to get away from that message. I don't expect fat women to date only fat men, but I do expect fat women to understand the commonality of our problems and that fat men need to have a respite from the criticisms of the outside world, just like fat women do. I don't want Conrad to issue any edict, I want people to behave with consideration toward each other without having to be forced to do it.

But suggesting that people get their hot, skinny celebrity fix somewhere else is just asking too much, I guess.

I think the issue here (and I admit that I am reading between the lines) is: can't you prefer not to date fat guys without people trying to make you feel guilty?
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking by the way you've phrased your question. It seems to have something to do with the way you feel when fat women express an appreciation or admiration for a particular body type that just happens to not be your particular body type. Am I close?
What I was unsuccessfully trying to say was that what I got out of the last part of your post was that you were asking whether you couldn't just prefer not to date fat guys without people trying to make you feel guilty. I thought that you were referring to the fact that the poll choice said, "Don't hate me for loving the skinny men!" As I said, I chose that wording because I was trying to be playful. If you were responding to my saying that I've heard from BHMs that they don't go to the main boards because the fat women only like the skinny guys and I heard from BBWs that they don't go to the BHM/FFA board because the fat guys only like the skinny women. I wasn't criticizing, I was just reporting what I had heard. It's not any sillier or wrong one way than it is the other.

Were the fat women in that thread that you referenced saying that all fat men were gross? Were they saying that you were gross? I'm confused. If they were doing that in that thread, or anywhere else, I suppose they should be chastized for being so crass; sometimes it is best to keep such opinions to ones' self. But, if you felt hurt or undesirable because some women were expressing and discussing what they find attractive--and they were not dissing you personally or directly (you yourself admitting to reading between the lines there)--I guess the onus is upon you to figure out why you felt that way; it's not anyone else's responsibility. Is it? The same applies to anyone else here (including me) who internalizes such thoughts and feelings over something posted here that is not specifically directed to them or about them.
So, anyone can post whatever they want as long as the don't explicitly cross the line? There is never any meaning to what anyone says beyond the precise meaning of every word? That's a nice debate tactic, but it isn't true. I'm fat, I can get hurt and told I am undesirable from almost every person on the planet, you don't think it makes a difference if I also get it here? I'm internalizing issues? The onus is on me? Blame the victim much? Is this the advice you would give a fat woman who said that people made her feel ugly because she is fat?

Don't feel like you have to pull out all your big guns to win this one, the issue of Carl vs. the Hot Boy thread has already been decided and Carl lost.

Yet I am still here.
 

olwen

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Carl, I'm not answering for saucy, I'm just answering.

Once upon a time I came across a site oriented towards love of fat women (not this one) and I freaked when I saw some pics of women I didn't think were fat. My honest reaction was, she's barely thick, wtf? She must have an eating disorder. What the hell is she doing here flaunting her skinny ass and why the hell on a site that's supposed to be about loving fat are there guys telling her how effing hot she is???!!! The nerve of those hypocrites. How inappropriate. The gall of that witch. WTF???!!! :::rage rage horror horror sadness rage rage::: After a few days I thought about my violent reaction to such images and I was horrified by my rage and contempt. I didn't want to have such feelings but there they were.

But then I came here and started reading about the experiences of the women that size and I started to change my mind. That girl had emotional baggage. Turns out she did have an eating disorder. (which is not to say that all girls her size have eating disorders) She was dealing with her own demons. Why should I be angry about that. They're her demons not mine. I realized l was more confident about my bigger body than she was about her smaller body. I should revel in that and leave the anger and contempt behind. I started reading various posts about varying degrees of fat love and then I started to really really let go of that anger. Everyone is entitled to their own. I can't begrudge anyone their own because what they like has a place and a function in the grand scheme of things.

So okay you were pissed about that thread, and you have a right to be, but then comes a time when you have to take responsibility for your own emotions and own up to them recognize them and then learn to let go of the ones that don't help you. Contempt and bitterness, while you are entitled to those feelings, really don't help you. They don't help anybody. It's energy you could be using for something else. What happened to me was I realized I began to walk with more confidence - even more than I thought I had, which turned out to be not as much as I thought because of that bitterness and anger. People pick up on that confidence and I know there are people out there who are going to find me attractive at my size. Those are the people I want to attract and have fun with. The people who try to give me shit about my size now can kiss my big black ass. Those people are not for me. The people who aren't attracted to me and hold no ill will towards me could become my best buddies for all I know. But if I'm angry at them then look what I could be missing out on.

See what I'm getting at?

My feeling about that thread and others like it? Big whoop. What's for dinner? What does it amount to really in the grand scheme?
 

GWARrior

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oh boo hoo

i dont know if youve actually LOOKED at that thread, but the variety of men on it is plenty. All different types of guys. Short, tall, hairy, bald, fat, skinny, young, old.
 

The Orange Mage

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The way I see it, if there's a whole subforum for the paysite ladies (whom the FA men here regard as the peak of (SS)BBW hotness) then there shouldn't be a problem with a thread for the other gender's hot fantasies and whatnot.
 

GWARrior

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The way I see it, if there's a whole subforum for the paysite ladies (whom the FA men here regard as the peak of (SS)BBW hotness) then there shouldn't be a problem with a thread for the other gender's hot fantasies and whatnot.
hells yes.

now excuse me, while I fantasize about Gary Oldman (who looks HOT at any weight!)
 

BothGunsBlazing

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Oh and also what doesn't seem to be addressed is that the reason a lot of people choose celebrities and what not is because if people started taking peoples pictures from here and posting them some may feel left out or some may find it creepy in a stalkerish kind of why are you saving my photos and posting them in other threads kind of way. Obviously, not too many celebrities are going to get that feeling from not being posted on the hottie threads.

As we all know, the fatty celebrity pool ain't that deep.

Oh and I'd know if it were because when I was younger my only source of "BBW" photos were the look as miserable as possible before photos on the 3am lose weight infomercials.
 

Carl1h

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My feeling about that thread and others like it? Big whoop. What's for dinner? What does it amount to really in the grand scheme?
Yeah, I know Olwen, we already had this discussion. I just didn't want to derail the other thread because I was interested in people talking about what they liked. I don't mind derailing this thread though.

What do you want to talk about? Shall we talk about you? Shall I tell you how smart and well spoken you are? That you have a great sense of humor? I'd tell you that you have dreamy eyes, but that thumb is so small I can't really see them. (Of course the optometrist told me I needed bifocals, so the problem is probably mine, and is also why I could never date a woman who was the size of a Barbie doll.) I do like the plaid underwear, I could see that just fine. :)
 

Carl1h

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Oh and also what doesn't seem to be addressed is that the reason a lot of people choose celebrities and what not is because if people started taking peoples pictures from here and posting them some may feel left out or some may find it creepy in a stalkerish kind of why are you saving my photos and posting them in other threads kind of way. Obviously, not too many celebrities are going to get that feeling from not being posted on the hottie threads.

As we all know, the fatty celebrity pool ain't that deep.

Oh and I'd know if it were because when I was younger my only source of "BBW" photos were the look as miserable as possible before photos on the 3am lose weight infomercials.
That all did come up. We talked about it over on the BHM/FFA board until it was dead. I suggested that guys from the BHM/FFA board should come over and post themselves (to add some meat to the thread while avoiding that creepy stalker thing you mentioned) but it was brought up that it was not a thread for posting yourself, but rather a thread for posting men you thought were hot. It didn't matter, no one wanted to put themselves into that thread.
 

olwen

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Ha. yes, we did have that convo, but I just couldn't resist reiterating my point. It was directed at anyone who feels that way too.

Dreamy eyes....wow, I've never thought of my eyes as dreamy, but I'll humbly take that compliment and all the others too. Thank you. I'm totally blushing. You aren't so hard on the eyes yourself. ;)
 

moore2me

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This is a continuation from a discussion in this thread:
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42051

Moved it here so that the discussion could continue without derailing the other thread. I'm referencing my post here and the general discussion that followed, also.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=787671&postcount=48

We return to our discussion, in progress...

I agree there, who we find attractive isn't an issue, how we treat is other is the issue.

No one actually said that, I felt like they had, though. After I posted against that Hot Boy thread there were women from the main boards who I had never seen on the FFA/BHM board come to argue for the existence of the hot boy thread, seemingly so that we could know how wrong we were. Of course there were also women who came to let us know they thought we were right, but overall it did leave me with the feeling that the enforcers had come to visit.

I was the one who started complaining about the hot boy thread, and I thought you mentioned the hot boy thread in your response to my post here because you knew that I had brought it up and still had some axe to grind against me about it. I see that I was wrong about that and that I was being too defensive.


I didn't bring up the hot boy thread, you brought it up, and you brought up the subject of why people take that thread personally or feel threatened. I would say I feel marginalized by it... threatened seems like a word that is chosen to make someone else sound weak. Whether or not you knew that you were complaining about me, you were in fact complaining about me and I wanted my to bring in my side without hi-jacking the poll thread, the best way I thought I could do that was to link to my original post about it.


I said before that a thread full of pictures of the FAs here, whatever their size or of the significant others, whatever their size, would (IMO) be perfectly fine, because this is the only place you're going to see that, and the FAs are part of the community (I doubt that any of those hot celebrities are). Is it really so hard to find pictures of hot celebrities that there has to pictures of them, not just everywhere else, but here as well? Am I the only person who sees these sort of places as a refuge of sorts? I don't look at those pictures and see anyone there that looks like me, and yet somehow, I am not supposed to take away the message that people like me aren't hot? The message that because I am fat, I am not hot, is a negative message that I can find most anyplace, I come to places like this to get away from that message.

Dear Carl, I would like to interject a few comments into your little discussion here. My whole family is fat. Mother. Father (who is now deceased). Two brothers. Husband. Self. Plus a half dozen assorted cousins too. It is the norm in my family to be fat. I am equally attracted to fat men and men that are not fat. But, I feel more comfortable around ones that are fat because that is what I am used to being with.

When I say I think Brad Pitt is a hot guy, I would not be comfortable around someone who is rail-thin like him even tho, I think he is cute. I prefer the comfort of my hubby or even the harassment and irritability of my younger brother, who has always been my nemesis (we fight like cats and dogs).

I can't speak for all women, but for myself, my taste in the opposite sex can be compared to an art critic. I appreciate many different types of art. Realism, modern, primitive, renaissance, victorian, and many different formats. It would be completely wrong to say I preferred one type of painting, say Italian Renaissance to romantic works by Wodehouse or Audobon's birds. I admire
them all. They all have their own virtues and glory.

I don't expect fat women to date only fat men, but I do expect fat women to understand the commonality of our problems and that fat men need to have a respite from the criticisms of the outside world, just like fat women do. I don't want Conrad to issue any edict, I want people to behave with consideration toward each other without having to be forced to do it.

But suggesting that people get their hot, skinny celebrity fix somewhere else is just asking too much, I guess.

I do understand. I would be fiercely jealous if the tables were reversed without a proper explanation. That's why I am trying to explain. We are not excluding you guys. I for one, would never do that. I have been happily married now for 28 years.


What I was unsuccessfully trying to say was that what I got out of the last part of your post was that you were asking whether you couldn't just prefer not to date fat guys without people trying to make you feel guilty. I thought that you were referring to the fact that the poll choice said, "Don't hate me for loving the skinny men!" As I said, I chose that wording because I was trying to be playful. If you were responding to my saying that I've heard from BHMs that they don't go to the main boards because the fat women only like the skinny guys and I heard from BBWs that they don't go to the BHM/FFA board because the fat guys only like the skinny women. I wasn't criticizing, I was just reporting what I had heard. It's not any sillier or wrong one way than it is the other.


So, anyone can post whatever they want as long as the don't explicitly cross the line? There is never any meaning to what anyone says beyond the precise meaning of every word? That's a nice debate tactic, but it isn't true. I'm fat, I can get hurt and told I am undesirable from almost every person on the planet, you don't think it makes a difference if I also get it here? I'm internalizing issues? The onus is on me? Blame the victim much? Is this the advice you would give a fat woman who said that people made her feel ugly because she is fat?

Don't feel like you have to pull out all your big guns to win this one, the issue of Carl vs. the Hot Boy thread has already been decided and Carl lost.

Yet I am still here.
So, just letting you know that there are women on this board who do like our fat men as well as the thin ones. The thin ones however are just eye candy. The fat ones are keepers.
 

steely

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More to your post,I love big men.Although I would prefer to watch Vincent D'onofrio at his present size for hours.I can enjoy Gary Oldman as well.Your picture is quite enjoyable as well!
 

cute_obese_girl

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I'm an SSBBW and an FFA so maybe I just have the benefits of seeing both sides. However, I'll say I don't understand being upset over the hot boy thread because I don't get upset over the sometime (note: sometime, not as a rule) hot=thin when it comes to FFAs mentality on the BHM board.

Dimensions was created for fat women and the men who love them because society in general does not see us the same way as we are seen here. I think it is saying a lot that a BHM board was also created in recognition that fat men face the same problems in the world.

If you don't want to be reminded that many women find thin men attractive don't venture out of the BHM board, or watch tv, or go outside for that matter. To be honest your dislike of the thread in the non-BHM part of the site makes about as much sense to me as a Red Sox fan going to a game at Yankee Stadium and being appalled that the crowd is rooting for the Yankees :doh:

I'd also like to add that Olwen is a smartypants. You're reasoning is spot on and it is always eloquently stated!

BothGunsBlazing is also right in saying there aren't many BHM celebrities. We had that thread on the BHM board and it died quick because it only took six or eight of us to name them all.
 

Jack Skellington

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But suggesting that people get their hot, skinny celebrity fix somewhere else is just asking too much, I guess
I will idolize whomever the hell I want regardless of size. I feel beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and to me that's what acceptance is about.

Not to mention there are plenty of thin women in the hot girl thread. Many of which posted by BHM btw and you don't see BBWs doing a "I hate the hot girl thread"
 

Carl1h

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If you don't want to be reminded that many women find thin men attractive don't venture out of the BHM board, or watch tv, or go outside for that matter. To be honest your dislike of the thread in the non-BHM part of the site makes about as much sense to me as a Red Sox fan going to a game at Yankee Stadium and being appalled that the crowd is rooting for the Yankees
I used to stay on the BHM board, and part of my point is that if people want the fat guys to come out onto the main board then maybe you should be prepared to hear their point of view, not agree, but at least listen.

The idea that I can go to TV and not be reminded that fat=ugly doesn't make any sense to me. I guess I'm on the wrong cable system. Maybe the fat=ugly message isn't as prevalent in the world as I thought. I had gotten the impression that fat women here thought that the outside world was anti fat and that a place like dims where you can hear a fat positive message was a greatly valued thing. I guess I should get out more, apparently the world has changed and I didn't know it. Or maybe you don't so much care where I go, as long as I go away.
 

Carl1h

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I will idolize whomever the hell I want regardless of size. I feel beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and to me that's what acceptance is about.
You do that, I'm for that 100%. You can sexually gratify yourself however you want as well, but don't be surprised if some people seem to think that there are places where that's ok and places where it isn't.
Not to mention there are plenty of thin women in the hot girl thread. Many of which posted by BHM btw and you don't see BBWs doing a "I hate the hot girl thread"
Thanks for bringing that up, I hate that Hot Girl thread too, two wrongs don't make right.
 

Jack Skellington

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Or maybe you don't so much care where I go, as long as I go away.
Wow, way to martyr yourself.

You know, just maybe, if people really want you to leave as you seem to think it probably wouldn’t be because you are a BHM. It's because of your self victimizing grand standing.

Personally, I say stay and enjoy the boards and get to know the people here instead of giving your self a pity party because someone thinks Johnny Depp is cute.

You do that, I'm for that 100%. You can sexually gratify yourself however you want as well,
I said idolize not masturbate you friggin' perv. Sheesh! :p
 

Renaissance Woman

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Wow, bitter much?

Dude, people like what they like. I don't expect every guy to think I'm hot. I don't expect a majority of guys to think I'm hot. I acknowledge and accept that most people find thinner women sexually attractive and fatter women not so much. I don't blame anybody for not thinking my body type is attractive; nobody chooses what gets their motor running.

In that same vein, I expect that others should have the same attitude, namely, a fat dude shouldn't get all bent out of shape when I don't want to jump his non-bones (phrase stolen from BGB). I'm attracted to thin guys. It's the way I'm wired. There are guys and gals here who are attracted to big guys and big girls. It's the way they're wired. And there are big dudes here who are attracted to skinny women. Again, it's not a matter of choice on their part. Why is this an issue for you?

The Hot Girl thread was started by BGB solely so you wouldn't feel excluded. And you still chose to be of your own volition. If you're so pissed off about the lack of big guys in the Hot Guy thread, then you need to get Hollywood to cast more fat actors, not try to start some board war over something that's a non-issue.
 

Carl1h

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Wow, way to martyr yourself.

You know, just maybe, if people really want you to leave as you seem to think it probably wouldn’t be because you are a BHM. It's because of your self victimizing grand standing.

Personally, I say stay and enjoy the boards and get to know the people here instead of giving your self a pity party because someone thinks Johnny Depp is cute.
I'm trying to address the point of BHMs in general feel comfortable coming to the other boards here. Your point isn't that I should go away because we disagree, you said just the opposite, but she said I should go away, and I wanted to point that out. Go away, isn't really the way to get wider participation.

I'm sorry if my bombastic grandstanding put you off. I didn't realize the simple homespun nature of the rhetoric you're usually used to. :p

Wait, are you saying that there are people who don't think Johnny Depp is cute? You understand that I'm not arguing that they aren't cute, or that people can't like whoever they like, right? I'm just saying that with so many sites dedicated to celebrity worship, does it need to be here too?
 
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