Revisiting ... the FFA guilt issue

Discussion in 'BHM/FFA' started by agouderia, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Oct 16, 2017 #21

    fuelingfire

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    I don't really want to make a huge argument over it, but I see this as a moral grey area. If you have a partner who passes away at an age much younger than normal, and the cause is exacerbated by being some level of obese. It's normal to start pondering, "what if?"

    You can argue that person would have been fat anyways, and that's probably true.

    My point of view being, I am a weightlifter whose body looks the way it does due to my workouts and what I eat. My tag line, “We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence is therefore not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

    If you see a potential problem but do nothing to change it or prevent it, you are being complicit. My point still being it's a moral grey area.
     
  2. Oct 16, 2017 #22

    dwesterny

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    I find the idea that if someone dates me and does not try to change who I am they are somehow responsible for or complicit in my lifestyle choices offensive and condescending.
     
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  3. Oct 16, 2017 #23

    Amaranthine

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    I think there are a few perspectives to sort out here.

    1. When it comes to pursuing happiness vs. planning for future problems, there's the selfless aspect and the selfish aspect.

    Selfless = "I want this person to live a long life and I don't want to see them deal with unpleasant and/or life-threatening conditions that may come about due to their size."

    Selfish = "I am very attached to this person and, knowing the risks that can come along with being overweight, feel anxious knowing that MY time with them might be shortened."

    Even if you accept that someone has autonomy over their choices and can be properly responsible for what they do to their body, it's probably not going to help your more self-centered anxiety that you might have a lot less time with someone that you're planning your life around. People often consider smoking a deal breaker--I imagine partially for that reason--and there's not that much conflict because they're not ATTRACTED to smoking. It's a tough situation.

    2. I think the moral grayness of the situation can be highlighted by a comparison. Of course, this point will not apply to many people and I don't wish to offend merely by bringing it up. If someone was dating an anorexic or bulimic person, most would find it strange to accept them as they are and not at least suggest seeking treatment. The same could be said for alcoholism or drug addiction. In some cases, it could be said that someone who's overweight has a legitimate eating disorder/food addiction problem. And an FA might feel as if their admiration is justifying the continuation of food as a coping mechanism instead of guiding the person towards healthier habits with food. Sure, someone can say that it's their choice to use food in such ways--but it's still very not socially acceptable to accept that kind of answer when it comes to an anorexic.

    That being said...with a little cooking prowess and adventurousness, there are plenty of things an FA could do to promote healthiness without making someone's life less pleasant. Cook wholesome and nutritious but delicious and not really low-calorie meals. Go out walking more. Stretch together naked and have awesome sex after seeing how those rolls can squish in new ways. All small things that can be an enjoyable part of a relationship, but also chip away at sources of anxiety.
     
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  4. Oct 16, 2017 #24

    dwesterny

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    Right, I have no problem with people suggesting exercise or healthier eating. The problem is when someone suggests acting on attraction to very fat people itself somehow is bad for us. Is it better to feel isolated and unworthy of affection? Maybe even being polite to us validates our fatness. Maybe selling me food makes you complicit too.
     
  5. Oct 16, 2017 #25

    Amaranthine

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    Depends on the context of the attraction, I think.

    I've seen some shady cases where someone who is obviously lonely and miserable gets the attraction of a bunch of FAs online, gets money, feels validated, and gains when they otherwise would never have done so to continue getting that validation. Then there are clear lapses where they hate what they've done and try to go hard in the opposite direction...only to fail and head back to be the internet's fap material. I think those cases are pretty sad.

    On the flip side, getting a genuine relationship with a caring FA could help someone deal with the unpleasant mental stuff that causes some of their issues with food. And in that case, they're obviously better off. Feeling loved and accepted often leads to healthier physical and mental habits.
     
  6. Oct 16, 2017 #26

    Tad

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    Amaranthine, I don't know if that is intentional or not, but the way you wrote it sounds like you are assuming that the fat person has mental stuff that causes some of their issues with food? Which certainly could be the case .... but I don't think would always be the case?
     
  7. Oct 16, 2017 #27

    Amaranthine

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    No, of course not. I was referring to the most problematic possible cases, in terms of guilt. I think cases where the person's relationship with food isn't that way are more clear cut, as one can defer to personal autonomy more readily.
     
  8. Oct 16, 2017 #28

    dwesterny

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    I do think it's fair to say most people who reach 500 lbs have some type of eating issues rooted in something less than pleasant.That doesn't mean I couldn't choose to get bariatric surgery or diet.
     
  9. Oct 17, 2017 #29

    BigChaz

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    If I get too fat for my partner's comfort for a variety of reasons like mobility, health, hobbies, etc, I am OK with them being concerned. It makes me happy to think someone would be concerned for me. I wish I had someone in my life like that right now!

    It also goes the other way. If I've legit gotten too fat for my partner for whatever reason, then I want them to be happy and know they are loved too...so I'd drop the weight back to where they are happy / comfortable after we talked about it. It's not like relationships happen in a vacuum. There would be discussions, understanding, etc.

    Yeah, I'm greatly simplifying, but that's pretty much how I see it. "Oh I got so fat my girlfriend / wife is concerned or unhappy. Let's talk about it and resolve it."

    Now onto the other topic of FA guilt. Feel guilty all you want for liking me fat. Just keep it to yourself and enjoy my belly. If you start to make me feel guilty about it, then I'll have an issue and we will deal with it. Ideally you won't feel guilty and you will just make me some brownies and juggle my moobs while we watch Stranger Things.
     
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  10. Oct 17, 2017 #30

    ashblonde

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    I wasn’t sure I would dip my toes into this, but reading through this thread made my brain swirl... Forgive the diatribe in advance, but I tend to write a lot when I write ;-)

    I'm in the no-guilt column. I view it as a zero sum game. It never changed the way my brain works, and it won’t change the people I admire.

    However, the kind of relationship one is in (or maybe a relationship history) is such a factor too. So I’m not saying guilt is a wrong thing to feel, I did once deal with guilt myself, mostly related to an old dysfunctional relationship situation that was saddled with insecurities and self-doubts (on both sides). But coming out the other side of that with my sanity intact seemed to make me feel more strongly that my preference is a gift and not a curse. Honestly (and sappily), this thread reinforces to me how incredibly lucky I feel that guilt/fear didn’t keep me from being with someone I can’t imagine my life without.

    Do I like some of the gain and food stuff? Sure. Do I surreptitiously admire other very big men too? Heck yes, I’m no saint. But then there’s real life and it’s just kind of normal. My guy knows I love his size, but he didn’t just suddenly get an appetite when he learned that about me. And because I’m very active, he’s probably more active than he otherwise would be, yet he still stays just as fat, so…

    I’m not in denial that a more extreme end of weight can impose discomfort and potential risks. But it’s also pretty clear, even within this thread, that everyone has a very different definition of what they think the point of unhealthy is with regards to weight. One guy can be 25 pounds over his preferred weight and be incredibly uncomfortable while another may weigh 400 and be perfectly happy in his own skin. But if we must assign some guilt, I’d like to send a big dose over to the medical community (and diet industry), for encouraging repeated weight loss cycles that do more harm than good to the body and its metabolism over time; not to mention preventative health care avoidance because of lazy docs who weight-blame rather than diagnose. Up against that multi-billion dollar faction, baking the hubs a treat from time to time doesn’t feel so unscrupulous.

    I’m all-in with Dwes on agency and I cringe at concern when it goes down the path of condescension. And don’t we all take our own risks? I drive in aggressive city traffic knowing there’s a chance that at some point I could get into an accident; and I run in places where the air quality isn’t 100% great, I cycle on roads with inevitably dumb drivers, and I often travel to cities with high crime rates, and every one of them has had some kind of terrorist attack. I could change my lifestyle, job, whatever, and avoid those things, but I’d rather just be thankful that what I have and what I do brings me happiness today.

    Tad’s posts were also very wise, alluding to the universal truth that we are all imperfect humans and we bring those imperfections to our relationships regardless of the particulars. It seems healthier to just love who you love without unnecessary emotional burdens because life will always be too damn short.
     
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  11. Oct 17, 2017 #31

    FreeThinker

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    You can cry because it's over, or smile because it happened.

    Or you can worry and feel guilty while it's still happening.

    This third option tends to be my default position. This no doubt comes from an inflated ego that allows me to believe that all hardship and sorrow in the world is caused by me...'cause, you know, I'm just that powerful.

    The guilt is not constructive.

    Saying the guilt is not constructive is not constructive.

    I'm using a phone and a cell service *right now as I type this* that I paid for with money that could have gone to famine relief, medical treatment for the poor, or to a homeless shelter.

    I'm spending time *right now as I type this* expressing an opinion, when that time could have been used to sign an online petition, or to exercise, or to send a nice message to my mother.



    We all feel guilt.

    We all should.


    Some feel happiness along the way.

    We all should.
     
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  12. Oct 17, 2017 #32

    Melian

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    I'm so torn on this topic.

    I feel extreme guilt for liking something that, taken to an extreme point, could be bad for my partner.

    That being said, I simultaneously feel no guilt, because I realize that I am not actually contributing to any weight he may gain (I have no time...at most, I can make one meal per day, and it's just not enough to make much of a difference). I've also told him numerous times that I wouldn't want him to change anything to get me off, and he understands.

    So there you have it.
     
  13. Oct 17, 2017 #33

    choudhury

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    It's a complex question, an maybe as an FA rather than FFA I shouldn't be butting in (although is there any difference when it comes to 'guilt' on this issue?), but I feel no guilt myself, because my partner is clearly hard-wired to love food and be fat, and would be this way with or without me. I love her as she is, but when the subject of weight loss comes up I let her know that I'll support her in that too, if that's what she wants. So far it isn't. If loving someone for who they are is 'enabling' then I don't think that's a sin.

    Feederism, rather than passive enjoyment of a partner's natural inclination to be fat, may be more complicated ethical terrain. But the alternative to FAs in that nobody loves fat people or finds them desirable. That's surely a much worse outcome.
     
  14. Oct 17, 2017 #34

    Tad

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    I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.

    -------------------------------

    About the guilt thing in general, I could not, for the life of me, manage to make the point more eloquently than FreeThinker did. But I did think of of some of my personal justifications that I pull out when the guilt creeps in on me.

    - I may not be the perfect person for her, who helps her lead her best possible life, but I'm also far from the worst.

    - She is probably fatter than she'd be with a lot of partners, but she may also be more secure in her body and my attraction to her than she'd be with a lot of partners.

    - She's fat enough to have some elevated health risks, but she's made all sorts of lifestyle changes to live healthier than she did growing up and far healthier than her parents modeled, so she could easily also be facing all sorts of other risks even if she were thinner.

    - I probably do influence her toward fatness, but I also influence her toward regular walking and biking, eating lots of vegetables, and some other healthy habits.

    - Maybe her weight hurts her health, but maybe our living alongside a busy road does too -- and if we lived further from traffic would the area be as good for walking and biking so would it really be healthier, and if she went through yo-yo weight loss and gain might that hurt her health more than being fairly steady around her weight?

    I make no claim that those should absolve me of my guilt (nor do they do so fully), but they are what I use. Perhaps others can find their own counter-balances to their (F)FA guilt.
     
  15. Oct 17, 2017 #35

    choudhury

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    A further thought concerns all the other 'unhealthy' lifestyles couples engage in without guilt or social sanction. For instance, riding a motorcycle is a highly dangerous activity. But a lot of people go for it, and for many couples it's an important bonding factor. Are such couples 'enabling' each other in a destructive activity such that they should feel guilty? If I like to ride a Harley and my gf finds that attractive and sexy (I'm a 'rebel' etc.), should she feel ashamed of herself?

    There is an enormous double standard around discussions of 'health,' especially when it comes to fat.
     
  16. Oct 18, 2017 #36

    Anjula

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    I feel guilty for everything you’ve mentioned so I guess I’m just prone to feeling guilty about stuff.
     
  17. Oct 20, 2017 #37

    FreeThinker

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    Or:


    To others, maybe it's like people say: We are what we do.

    To ourselves, it could be we are what we feel.



    So you're not a sociopath -- get over it. :)
     
  18. Oct 22, 2017 #38

    Angel

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    I couldn't decide which post to quote.

    Normally I am not one who openly posts about personal experiences.
    Anyway, here are some thoughts, but from the flip side / my perspective. If you are an FFA, imagine it being written by a SSBHM to / about FFAs.

    I'm an SSBBW, over 50 years old. Have been over 400 for over 30 years. Have weighed near 600 in the past (and that was before discovering Dimensions, FAs, encouragers, and/or feeders). Currently weigh around 450. Weight fluctuates between 440 and 480, usually.

    Was involved with FA/feeders from 2002 until 2009. It was my experience that only feeders were attracted to me/ wanted to meet me. Not FAs. After four bad experiences in '09 (each met via Dimensions), I decided to take a break. I met someone outside of Dimensions who was an FA. Never met in person. Another year wasted on someone who didn't deserve my time or attention. Later briefly became close to a non FA. A total loser/jerk.

    One night (about a year and a half ago) I was goofing off online with a male FA/possibly feeder/encourager friend. I realized then that only certain men find me attractive and actually *get* / understand me. I realized then that no matter how much I was trying to protect my heart, that I knew what I needed, wanted, and missed.

    I wanted, and needed, to be found attractive. I wanted and needed someone to find me sexy and desirable. I wanted and needed someone to view me as *normal* and *irresistible* even if I did weigh 480 some pounds. I wanted and needed someone who wouldn't be ashamed of me or my size and someone who was also mature and secure enough about their FAness. I wanted someone who would love *all* of me and who would appreciate all of my fatness. I realised that I missed "fat talk" and missed talking about me gaining/growing even if I was too fat to actually gain much more.

    My point? Some of us do want to be appreciated and lusted after by someone special. We want and need to be found *hot*. We want and need to feel alive in every aspect of our being. We want and need to enjoy life in every way we possibly are able to.

    If you live your life in fear or in shame, you are going to miss out on some beautiful and unforgettable moments and experiences.

    Love me and create memories with me while I am alive and able to enjoy them. I want and need to feel passion. I want and need to share and give of my sensualness and love. Don't let my size or weight cause you to question or regret what could bring us both passion and intimacy and happiness. If you are attracted to me and find me sexy at my weight/size and if you love *all* of me, don't be afraid. I deserve to feel and experience all the emotions and physical intimacy, passion, and love and giving of myself and giving passion in return just like everyone else. Feed my desires. Feed our desires. Feed my/our fantasies. Don't keep me in a cage because you are ashamed or afraid.

    Concern is appreciated, but know that I am fully aware and cognizant of my weight/size/health, and solely responsible there of.


    Oops! Just realised there is a page 2 of posts! Back to reading! :)
     
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  19. Oct 22, 2017 #39

    Angel

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    I think you were being both sarcastic and funny here. I hope. :)

    It's no fun being with someone who finds you sexy but who also is conflicted with their own FAness. "I love your belly" and "I love how fat you are" and "You turn me on so much" .... "but this isn't who I really am".

    No, jackass. It *is* who you really are. You are also immature and lacking in confidence. You say you want a sexy and confident SSBBW who dresses sexy? Then grow a pair and grow up. Realise that if it gets you hard, then it *is* what turns you on / and it is who you *are*.

    Bring me two dozen donuts and some of those fattening brownies... and don't let the door hit you on that little ass of yours on the way out. Good riddance. My fat ass and huge belly are for someone whom deserves the pleasure they bring!
     
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  20. Oct 22, 2017 #40

    Angel

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    I've been around Dimensions since May 2001, and read the magazine prior to then. This is more of an observation than anything. From what I have seen and read, the majority of FFA are looking for or are in relationships with BHM/SSBHM. whereas the majority of male FA, encouragers, and feeders are looking for sexual gratification rather than relationships. There are the exceptions. :)

    I think that when someone desires a relationship and / or develops feelings for another, care and concern naturally exist and flourish. When you care about someone their well being is important to you.

    On the other hand, when someone is only looking for a romp in the hay, they are not typically going to become emotionally invested.

    Also factor in that it is generally females who open up / post about feelings / emotions / real life relationships, etc. Some males do, but that ratio is probably greater than 10:1.

    So the "pressure" may generally be the same or possibly lean in the opposite direction. You have one faction who express the relating concerns and another who never get to or desire to arise to that level of intimacy.
     

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