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The Dr. Keith Ablow Show/ Fat as subjective?

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Green Eyed Fairy

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moonvine said:
Donahue was respectful and fair to everyone. He's about the only talk show host I would ever deal with. :wubu: I want him back doing a talk show.
I don't have too much of an opinion on Geraldo.

I did see a Sally Jesse Raphael show in the early 90's that was a fat chick beauty contest. It was totally positive and well done. Of course, she's out of the biz as well now.

I did not see the show in question, so I can't form an opinion on it. I can say that is possible to do an unbiased talk show on any subject, because Donahue did it for years. It is my opinion that most folks who do talk shows nowadays have no interest in doing an unbiased talk show, because unbiased talk shows are not what produce good ratings.
I saw that Sally Jesse show, I think. Didnt they hold a lingerie contest for all the big women ? They also had a guy into body-building on there talking about how much he loves big women. That was a good show and was very respectful- didnt mock anyone, if Im remembering correctly. Sally always had class, imo.

I do remember a show on Geraldo about a big women's escort service. I also recall him talking to one big lady about her bf/date "feeding" her. The final analysis on that part (I dont recall it being referred to as feederism, the lady just explained what she did with her dates) was that a man pressing for a woman's weight to be bigger is as controlling as a man pressing for a woman's weight to be lower.
(I personally dont care if women like to do feederism if they are happy with it- because if that is what they really want then that's two consenting adults and none of my business. Just a disclaimer of my own opinion)

I dont have total recall on any Donahue shows but I liked the guy, too. :)
 

blueeyedevie

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I am most certainly in the very middle of this conversation. I agree with Bruce with a twist. I am going to use parts of bruce's first post..

"The audience attacked Rhonda because she jumped on her own son's smoking habits. Furthermore, her son's appearance on the show was NOT in the original plan.

All around, I DO NOT think that the Dr.Keith atmosphere was unbias. Despite the looks of disgust, the "eeks", and the dozens of rolling eyes I noticed in the audience, my two thumbs up go to Gaining Goddess, Destiny, Desire, and the hotty from BODacious (Jennifer, was it?)...they carried themselves very well and managed to take control of a seemingly fat-hating audience.
(KUDOS) I Was so happy to be represented by beautiful, smart, well put together women. Thank you to all the ladies for being such great examples.




As for Rhonda's segment? Well, I won't go on about how the audience jumped on her...I won't go on about how the flow of the program was changed from what she had agreed to...I'll simply clear my throat and say "I told you so".
My opinion on this, varies a bit form Bruce, BUT I have to say, I see it as a somewhat parent as well as the fat girl I am. Having helped raised a child for two years now, I love this teenager very much and he has some sever issues. IF he would come to me and say, "your weight bothers me and I am so worried about you etc., If I were to stop this (his behavior) and prove it to you. Would you then loose some weight so we can do more together." Instantly I would say yes, thinking of my self later. I think why the audience come down so hard on Rhonda is because she stalled. She didn't say yes. She didn't jump on to * the traditional What's best for your child*. EVEN Thought as a fat women I can see Rhondas side. I am presently trying to drop about a 100 lb. and I am deathly, scared of it. I DON'T want to loose weight and The pure thought that I have to makes me sick. I want to be who I am and look like I do, how I am comfortable. However it has come to the point where I am physically suffering.


And in closing, despite the class, the confidence, and the valiant efforts of the ladies on the panel, Dr.Keith simply overshadowed all of it in his closing statement with health risks and all the other malarchy that all of us are accustomed to...and his audience followed his lead.

While I think what Dr. Keith didn't say anything bad... I think it was the wrong type of show to say it on. Here is a show your supposed to be showing pride and confidence, not focus on health and risk.

I enjoyed the show very much, I just really wish, that people other than our community could see Truly see the points about our lives and how we feel. I wanted to slap the person with the comment about ** it seems your trying to convince the audience about your confidence. THAT really pissed me off.
 

dragorat

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I just finished watching the show twice & think all in all it was very positive.Yes there was a little tention with Rhonda but she handled it well as did the other ladies.The ladies were all lovely & well poised & I think they showed BIG can be BEAUTIFUL!
 

UncannyBruceman

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PrettyFatGirl4U said:
Look chum, everyone else on the board thinks the show was a very positive one except you....your agenda was clearly one of I told you so and you just can't conceed that you have no real cause for the I told you so's.
Actually, I'm not the only person who thought that Rhonda was singled out for attack. Read the posts and see for yourself.

As for your other argument, you merely proved my point that some people refuse to see the decency of highly opinionated people such as myself. You're all just going to believe what you want to believe, even if you're accusing me of doing the same thing when it comes to my critique of today's broadcast. I've seen shows that were TRULY positive for fat women and admirers...this broadcast came close, but in my view, still fell a little short.

I'd gladly surrender my life if it meant for my ex's well-being, and her and I have been separated for a year now. But you wouldn't know that, because the only things you know are the fetish/fantasy related material you see on these boards.

And we're not chums.

Evie and Largenlovely ARE friends of mine, however, and thanks to both of you darlings for your participation.
 

Green Eyed Fairy

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I have never heard of this show until these boards- is there going to be a place on the internet I can watch it? Any news on that yet?
 

SamanthaNY

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Let's stop saying Dream was "attacked" - that really wasn't what happened.
 

UncannyBruceman

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i just saw it and i hate the fact where they left out the part where my son said if me being thin really made me unhappy he didn't want it
These words come from Rhonda herself in the Paysite Board's answer to the Dr.Keith show (give it time before one pops up in the WLS board). Now when the Dr.Keith people first came to these boards, I DID SAY that something like this could easily happen, because they're ultimately going to tell THEIR story and not YOURS. Anyone still want me to conceed?

Maybe she wasn't "attacked", per say, but she was definitely judged...and she was invited to this taping under the assumption that she would be speaking to an open-minded audience and host. I'm sorry it didn't exactly turn out that way, honestly.
 

SamanthaNY

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We get it. You told her so. Yay you.

Enough!
 

Missy9579

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I watched the show today as well,,,and I thought that it was pretty nice,,,,the environment didnt seem so "OH NO"ish, but it seemed like people wanted to know and learn. All the ladies looked beautiful,,i did watch the after credits to see if they supplied their clothing and where but either i missed it, or they didnt do a "thanks to" for the clothing.


One thing I would have liked to see though , was someone stand up and say yes, you may eat 2 pieces of pizza for dinner, but i eat 4 or 5. It seemed like several of the girls were very concerned that people may think big girls over eat. And while i know metabilism plays a part in it, I dont think any of got this was from following a balanced 1600 calorie diet. And since the show was about a few wanting to get bigger..i was just surprised that someone didnt say something like that...

All in all, it was a great show, I still love Nikki's wedding pictures and dress....glad they showed them for the world to see as well
 

Upstate New York Foodee

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I did enjoy the show, but I kind of have to second what BigCutieViolet said. I'm not being a jerk or a buzzkill, but since I post on the Foodee board most of the time I've seen some of BBWDREAMLOVER's posts and they don't really seem consistant with this "I'm gaining weight the healthy way attitude" she had on the show.

I have no problem with people eating what they want to eat, but I wish they were keeping it more real about their eating habits. The I say one thing on Dimensions, another on TV thing turned me off.

To each their own.
 

UncannyBruceman

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BigCutieViolet said:
All the ladies looked beautiful,,i did watch the after credits to see if they supplied their clothing and where but either i missed it, or they didnt do a "thanks to" for the clothing.
If it helps, Destiny and Desire were shopping at Torrid. There are several locations in the NY/Long Island area, but I've heard complaints that their clothing has taken a more conservative approach, whereas before, you'd find plenty of hot items suitable for a night out on the town.
 

Jon Blaze

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(Posted on myspace)



There is a forum I visit that advocates the acceptance (and admiration) of large people (If you don't already know).

A huge topic that has been turning heads is a man named Dr. Keith Ablow. He posted on the forum asking people to join him for an episode of his show in New York about plus size women who think they are sexy (as well as a couple of their admirers).

If I would have known, I might have gone myself. I was informed too late though.

I actually didn’t know I would be able to see the show until an hour before it was about to come on.

Let me try and give a little synopsis, with some insight here and there.
It began with Destiny and Desire:
Both these girls are good friends that live in Southern Florida. The message they were trying to stress is basically a few thoughts on how they are considered attractive.

I'm familiar with both of them. They post on the forum all the time.
They show some video clips of them enjoying the Florida beaches, and shopping.... Things that women generally like to do. The message they were putting across was basically that while they may receive some disapproval some society that still doesn't stop them from being confident in their own skin.

Desire later went on to talk about some common myths associated with large women.

Let me see if I can remember them... Society assumes large women are:

Lazy and dirty, the clothes they wear are always unattractive, they are promiscuous, they got the way they are because of overeating, and they are unhealthy. I think I got them right…

All of these are obviously untrue, but the foolish usually make these assumptions. Desire brought up a good point with saying that she gets annoyed by the fact that she meets guys that aren't exactly attractive that think they can get her easy because they're doing her a favor. Where's my Katana :mad: ? Just kidding... They do suck for thinking that though.


Second on the list is Nicki: "The Gaining Goddess"
She (just like Desire and Destiny) has an adult website, and she posts on the forum as well.
She's gone from 140 to her now 420 over the past years. Her ultimate goal (if I'm not mistaken) is around 600 lbs.

This is her second TV appearance. Her first TV appearance was on the VH1 show "Totally Obsessed" in which she was obsessed with gaining weight.

It has become a big part of her lifestyle, and she doesn't intend to change it.
Her segment (in my opinion) was a sort of support system for the message that Desire and Destiny were saying: They are confident, they are proud, and they will not change to conform to society and its judgment of beauty.

Her TV appearances are always very empowering because Nicki continues to stress her point(s) with eloquence, and strength.

Number 3!!!!- Jen from Bodacious Magazine
She's an editor and she models for the magazine as well. Bodacious Magazine claims to be the Playboy equivalent for guys that prefer large women.

Dr. Ablow spoke to hear about what parts they find attractive. She just said the normal things: Rolls, Stretch marks, the curves, et cetera.

Bodacious has found many very confident and beautiful large women. I know of about... 12 of the maybe 40 or so models? Ah well. I've haven't had the money to get my copies, but I'm going to buy them probably when I get my ass out of McHell.

Back on topic: Then we had this couple. The woman doesn't have a site, but she does have a yahoo group she posts pictures on.

The first male guest came on. He said he has an admiration for seeing his significant other eat.

He also said that he doesn't exactly hate thin women, but he prefers large women. I'm not quite on the same level:

I'm constantly going between either A. Keeping thin women and large women in the same group, but holding large women to a slightly higher caliber. Or B: Separating the two all together, with once again putting large women higher on the pedestal.

Then he started to get a little deep. He said he doesn't care what size she is. All that matters is that he loves her, and if she decided to be a size 5 one day, then he will support her. He is in love with her spirit, but prefers her curvaceous figure.

A message that I approve of greatly: Blessings to him...
Desire came in to support this with saying that when she looks at a guy that she might see as becoming her boyfriend, she gets to know him personally, and expects him approve of her personality, as well as love her for being "fluffy."

Great points yet again.
Next up (I’m starting to think I’m out of order. I know I got every guest though) is Rhonda and her son Zac (Forgive me if I spelled his name wrong Rhonda).

Rhonda has had an adult website for six years. She now wants to make her 5’3”, 375-pound physique up to 450 as her final goal. Her son is deeply concerned with her health.

On the other foot, she is deeply concerned with Zac smoking.
Rhonda stressed the point that she is gaining weight in a healthy manner (Which isn’t necessarily a walk in the park, but it is achievable). She said that she visits her doctor frequently to make sure her health is in order.

Zac refutes that statement a little by saying what Doctor can say she is healthy. He is disheartened by the fact that he can’t walk with his Mom everywhere like he wants to.

Rhonda comes back (Refute Refute Refute…) by giving disapproval to his smoking. Dr Ablow jumped in by saying: If your son wanted to get up to four packs a day…

She stops him by saying she would just die.
Then comes to the debate:
There is a suggestion that if Zac is to give up smoking, then Rhonda should lose weight. Zac sounded a little shifty with agreeing, but Rhonda said he would have to stop for a period of time before she even began to think about losing weight.

A really heated debate. Very interesting I must say though.
Then we have H-Black and Hot Chocolate. They are partners. H-Black (Unlike the first male guest) used the term FA (Fat-Admirer) to describe himself. Dr. Ablow made a little joke by saying “I’m an MD.”

Hot Chocolate is a pear-shaped BBW (Big Beautiful Woman). Most of her weight is focused on the lower half, which some studies may suggest is slightly healthier than the all around large physique that most large women have (Rhonda became the example of this).

H-Black says he loves the way she is, and that won’t change. Hot Chocolate brought the point that she has no health problems, and is very fit. Another point I stress:

You can be fat and fit. You can be thin and unhealthy. It all lies within your lifestyle and genetics. Don’t be stupid and make the assumption that someone’s body type determines his or her fitness level. I’m relatively thin, and I can barely run three miles. I’m working on it, but most people would assume based on my body type that I can run for days. Sorry folks. My heart is weak.

I have a pretty mean tornado kick though. Let’s get back on topic…

The final part of the show involved: Love Making :wubu: , which led into a summary of the entire show.

The women said they are better in the bed because of points like:
They are uninhibited, enchanting, confident, powerful, and they can do anything someone half their size could.

I have no doubt they are true. I just haven’t experienced it yet. One day. One day…

Then the summary came with a few questions from audience ranging from confidence, to society views, et cetera. The women in audience in the entire show looked shocked and confused. I noticed some laughing too. You can’t knock them. They’ve been brainwashed.

That’s it. Not the best synopsis, but I hope to come back and improve it if I get a copy of it. That’s when I can get deeper.

Now on to the next part of this post:

Dr. Ablow asked every woman on the show the same question: If he could magically make her a size 8 would they do it? They all said no.

This leads to something I’ve been contemplating: The word “Fat.” The women on the show (as well as some other large women) approve of the term. Most of society, however, uses the term as a term of abhorrence.

I love women of all sizes. I would like it if more women were open to being described that way, but I know I can’t go around trying to convert people.

I’ve decided to now look at this term as subjective. I feel compelled to first ask someone his or her opinion of the word before I give my honest opinion (whether I consider them to be fat or not).


That’s what I will try to do from now on.

“Do you think I’m fat?”

“In what sense? What’s your opinion of that word?”

END………..
 

moonvine

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blueeyedevie[COLOR="purple" said:
My opinion on this, varies a bit form Bruce, BUT I have to say, I see it as a somewhat parent as well as the fat girl I am. Having helped raised a child for two years now, I love this teenager very much and he has some sever issues. IF he would come to me and say, "your weight bothers me and I am so worried about you etc., If I were to stop this (his behavior) and prove it to you. Would you then loose some weight so we can do more together." Instantly I would say yes, thinking of my self later. I think why the audience come down so hard on Rhonda is because she stalled. She didn't say yes. She didn't jump on to * the traditional What's best for your child*. [/COLOR]

You can't control other people's behavior like that, though, even if you really really want to. If she had agreed to lose weight, or attempt to, if he stopped smoking, that's a bribe for him to stop smoking. That never works. He has to decide he wants to stop smoking for himself, regardless of what anyone else does or doesn't do, and not as part of a "lets control each other's behavior" pact.
 

moonvine

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Green Eyed Fairy said:
I saw that Sally Jesse show, I think. Didnt they hold a lingerie contest for all the big women ? They also had a guy into body-building on there talking about how much he loves big women. That was a good show and was very respectful- didnt mock anyone, if Im remembering correctly. Sally always had class, imo.

I do remember a show on Geraldo about a big women's escort service. I also recall him talking to one big lady about her bf/date "feeding" her. The final analysis on that part (I dont recall it being referred to as feederism, the lady just explained what she did with her dates) was that a man pressing for a woman's weight to be bigger is as controlling as a man pressing for a woman's weight to be lower.
(I personally dont care if women like to do feederism if they are happy with it- because if that is what they really want then that's two consenting adults and none of my business. Just a disclaimer of my own opinion)

I dont have total recall on any Donahue shows but I liked the guy, too. :)

Yes, that was the Sally Jesse Raphael show I'm referring to. It is sad that I still remember it after all these years. I watched it in my dorm room..heh.

I don't remember a Donahue show specifically dealing with fat, though I know there were some - I believe Conrad was a guest. I don't remember him ever, ever treating *anyone* with less than 100% respect, though. He rules.:)
 

EtobicokeFA

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I did enjoy the show very much. It went a long way to being postive. And, I would like to thank Desire and Nikki and the other girls for going on and give size acceptance great representation. And, show the world that being fat and being obese is not always the same thing. I specially like it when they all talk about how being fat was a choice. One that they are happy with. Even though alot of the audience didn't seem to be able to get their head around it.

However, I agree that they seemed to have waited until Rhonda's segment to bring out the big guns. By comparing being fat to smoking and then comparing it to being anorexic. I didn't like the fact the Bruce treated the show as an intervention, for his mother. He couldn't seem to see that his mother was happy.

Of course, being a doctor, Keith reminded the audience that in his opinion fat and obesity are the same thing.

All in all, it was a postive show for size acceptance.
 

Littleghost

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UncannyBruceman said:
I gotta disagree. I've seen the BBW community handled with more respect on Donahue, Geraldo, Maury, and several other talk shows in the early 90's. In fact, anyone who knows their history (or simply knows the woman) will recognize one of the supporters in the audience. Remember the redhaired lady with the glasses who inquired about BODacious? That's none other than Nancy Goddess, who made several appearances in calendars and TV shows a little over ten years ago, and has also been running the Goddesses BBW dance party in NYC for 20 years.
Nancy was on and I missed it?? $#*@&!!!!.......

I'm gonna go console myself, hold my calls.
--Littleghost
 

moonvine

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EtobicokeFA said:
I did enjoy the show very much. It went a long way to being postive. And, I would like to thank Desire and Nikki and the other girls for going on and give size acceptance great representation. And, show the world that being fat and being obese is not always the same thing. I specially like it when they all talk about how being fat was a choice. One that they are happy with. Even though alot of the audience didn't seem to be able to get their head around it.

However, I agree that they seemed to have waited until Rhonda's segment to bring out the big guns. By comparing being fat to smoking and then comparing it to being anorexic. I didn't like the fact the Bruce treated the show as an intervention, for his mother. He couldn't seem to see that his mother was happy.

Of course, being a doctor, Keith reminded the audience that in his opinion fat and obesity are the same thing.

All in all, it was a postive show for size acceptance.
In my opinion, "obesity" is just a medically pejorative term for "fat". They *are* the same thing.

Still have not seen the show, but I would have preferred them to also show women for whom being fat was *not* a choice, as I believe that body size (outside of about a 20-30 pound range) is not a choice for most of us, or my choice would be a size 6. Reality is a size 26, though, and I accept that.
 

lipmixgirl

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erg, i missed it... does anyone have a copy to lend me? POSTAGE PAID?!?!?!?

thanks!
 

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