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The "Friend Zone"

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Grizzlybear

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This has happened to me several times, so my interest was piqued when I saw this video in my YouTube Subscriptions feed:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IGK2KprU-To" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm interested in what the community thinks. In a way, I kind of agree with the whole analysis. I'm trying to wrap my head around what that means.
 

Jon Blaze

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It makes sense.

I've had some recent experiences with it. Last July it happened to me. Moderately conservative atheist (her), and moderately liberal christian (me). I actually pushed away the thought of being with this person for years because I knew we have different opinions on things. I was willing to make compromises, and I made plans to try my best to get things to work out. But even when you put a lot of effort into a potential relationship, you don't always get the outcome that you want.

Unfortunately it changed our friendship forever, but it's just another lesson to add to my list. There are certain things that make people incompatible, but it's different for every person. Some people have to be with someone with a similar background, traits, and believe in certain concepts.

Compatibility is a very complex thing, and while I think some couples are truly compatible with one another on all levels (Despite inevitable quarrels here and there), most of us have at least some level of compromise/incompatibility that is a factor. Some are willing to compromise more than others. Some people have things that while important to them are not important to share with partners/potential partners.
 

mediaboy

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imbedded links don't work.

its really a a matter of self respect.

if some one isn't willing to give back what.you're willing to give them then respect yourself enough to to find some one who will.

this friend zone shit happened to me once in high school and after six miserable months of awful depression I realized I was just ha.ging in there hoping this girl would notice I was always there when her other idiot suiters weren't and eventually I reallized she did and she.didn't give a shit. the bottom line was she knew all along Iwas misserably depressed about her but did nothing to discuss it or bri.g it up which means she didn't give to hair flips about me but what's even worse is I didn't have the stones too myself.

I didn't respect myself.enough.to realize bitches ain't worth it. put yourself first and eventually you'll fi.d some one that actually wants to be in a relationship with you.

so get to, do some ducking pushups and learn to dance and curse and stand up straight and make eye contact.
 

CarlaSixx

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I pretty much put all guys in the friend zone. But it's basically because I assume that's where they already put me. But then if they take a long time to voice their feelings for me, they get stuck in the friend zone because it becomes too comfortable to change that.
 

mediaboy

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As a male: I personally, do not have any female friends whom I would not, at the slightest drop of a hat, have sex with.

Unless they are friends of my girl friend.

You don't shit where you eat.

So, ladies, I hope that clarifies this entire situation.

Again, if anything I think the above female opinion reaffirms my hypothesis that it is a self respect issue.

Why don't you ladies assume that you are beautiful and that men want to have sex with you even in cases where you believe they are initially drawn in by your charming wit and sense of humor?

EDIT

I don't want to come off as rude, I suppose maybe there are some very good reasons that end in horrible stories where the shoe was on the other foot for you girls. I'm sorry that happened.

The more I think about it this definitely isn't a male vs female issue.

The mirror goes both ways on this one.

When I think about it now the lesson I took away from my own experience with the friend zone and the posts in this thread can be summed up along the lines of "How can you expect some one else to love you if you don't even love you?"

After all, if you don't love yourself then you will definitely be willing to force yourself through misery because after all "Screw me, I don't give a crap about me!"
 

dharmabean

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I've always been told, "Women promise sex for a relationship, Men promise a relationship for sex."

As a male: I personally, do not have any female friends whom I would not, at the slightest drop of a hat, have sex with.

Unless they are friends of my girl friend.

You don't shit where you eat.
 

CarlaSixx

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Dharmabean, I've been told the same thing.

Normally the straight guys seem to jus tolerate me. There's no actual impression that they find me even remotely physically attractive. Whether that impression is true or not doesn't matter. That's what they give out. And most of the time, the straight guys I meet are just best friends of the gay guys I hang out with. So the straight guys really DO just tolerate me for the sake of their male friends. If some happen to be interested in me, I really don't know until it's too late.
 

bigmac

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As a male: I personally, do not have any female friends whom I would not, at the slightest drop of a hat, have sex with.

...
I have several female friends -- most of who I've had sex with at some point. This works fine so long as the female doesn't believe that sex is some magical thing that automatically transforms a relationship or a sacred gift to be bestowed only upon her one true love.

Friends with females seems to work if everyone involved as a morally causal attitude regarding sex.
 

PeanutButterfly

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I don't know, Mediaboy, this sounds great in theory and for you I'm sure it's true but in a world filled with many, many fat phobic men I haven't found this to be the case. I'm really not an insecure woman, at all. I'm with someone now who treats me wonderfully. But before this awesome dude I was friend zoned, a lot. It does exist.

Guys would spend hours talking to me, laughing with me, flirting with me but the problem was they didn't want to have sex with me because I was a fat girl. Or if they secretly did, they were way too much of a pussy to admit to anyone else. Secret sex might as well be the friend zone because you're not getting a relationship from that. I'm like 90% sure that if I showed up on their doorstep 70 lbs thinner all of a sudden they'd realize "I've always been into you!"

Now to be fair I'm still in college so maybe this a mentality that some men grow out of. And maybe most men aren't as fat phobic as these winners I've been blessed to know -___- but my experience has been that the friend zone does exist and it sucks. I've just learned not to play that game anymore. If a guy doesn't make a move within a few weeks you're heading down friend zone territory fast. Short of a radical physical transformation I have yet to figure out how to get out.


As a male: I personally, do not have any female friends whom I would not, at the slightest drop of a hat, have sex with.

Unless they are friends of my girl friend.

You don't shit where you eat.

So, ladies, I hope that clarifies this entire situation.

Again, if anything I think the above female opinion reaffirms my hypothesis that it is a self respect issue.

Why don't you ladies assume that you are beautiful and that men want to have sex with you even in cases where you believe they are initially drawn in by your charming wit and sense of humor?

EDIT

I don't want to come off as rude, I suppose maybe there are some very good reasons that end in horrible stories where the shoe was on the other foot for you girls. I'm sorry that happened.

The more I think about it this definitely isn't a male vs female issue.

The mirror goes both ways on this one.

When I think about it now the lesson I took away from my own experience with the friend zone and the posts in this thread can be summed up along the lines of "How can you expect some one else to love you if you don't even love you?"

After all, if you don't love yourself then you will definitely be willing to force yourself through misery because after all "Screw me, I don't give a crap about me!"
 

Dr. Feelgood

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Now to be fair I'm still in college so maybe this a mentality that some men grow out of.
Quite a lot of them do. Part of the problem is that women mature socially and emotionally earlier than men do. So most of the college men around you are at the stage YOU were at in high school: not quite sure who they are, they tend to rely on peer feedback. When I was in college I wasn't mature enough to think about the needs of the girls I dated: I thought about impressing the guys I hung out with by being seen with a classy-looking girl . The bad news is that a lot of guys never grow out of that mentality: while introverts tend to make their own decisions and to hell with what others think, extraverts need public approval and are generally more concerned with appearances and getting the approval of others. Then again, there are degrees of introversion and extraversion, so it doesn't necessarily mean the latter will put you into the friend zone. But ladies who are interested in a relationship might do well to check out the quiet guys. :)
 

Tad

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PB, I don’t know if this could be a factor in your experiences or not…

I’ve read a couple of pieces lately saying that as most colleges have developed a majority female population, it has really changed relationship dynamics there. Essentially that at college age, what motivates guys most strongly is sex. In the past when there were fewer women than men on campuses, guys had to really strive to stand out if they were going to date another student, or else work to get to know people in the broader community if they were going to connect with someone there….and in either case, this often required getting into a proper relationship if they were going to get much sex.

But that now, with more women than men in most colleges, what guys have to do in order to get sex has really, really, dropped. That true relationships have become much less common, that &#8216;hook-ups’ and &#8216;fuck-buddies’ have become far more common. Essentially that even if some hold to wanting a relationship, enough will consent to sex without a real relationship that it really changes the whole dynamic. The side effect is social sphere less focussed around couples, and more about larger, loosely defined, groups of friends, some of whom hook up occasionally.

Like I said, I’ve just been reading this, not been on campuses to see it myself (although, one nephew started uni this year, and talking to him at Christmas his degree of pickiness of what women he’d consider worthy of interest was fairly shocking for one of my generation, when the question was far more what women would deign to show interest in you)

In that sort of situation I could see guys friend-zoning a lot of women, in the &#8216;hey, maybe sometime we’ll be hanging out and things will happen, that would be cool” sort of mind-set. But not putting much effort into going after any but the ones that have that mix of personal appeal and status enhancing main stream appeal (i.e. skinny, have generically media approved looks and style).

Pure speculation on my part, just wondering if that sounds like what could be happening, from your perspective?
 

Oona

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I actually got stuck in the friend zone by a guy recently.

I don't think I ever really realized how crappy it can feel until that happened to me. So I've made a promise that if the situation arises again, I will always be forthright and honest about my feelings and why I wont date the guy (not that I wasn't before, but it was more of a mental note).
 

Grizzlybear

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Well, I started this thread, I guess it's time I made some responses.

Dharmabean, I've been told the same thing.

Normally the straight guys seem to jus tolerate me. There's no actual impression that they find me even remotely physically attractive. Whether that impression is true or not doesn't matter. That's what they give out. And most of the time, the straight guys I meet are just best friends of the gay guys I hang out with. So the straight guys really DO just tolerate me for the sake of their male friends. If some happen to be interested in me, I really don't know until it's too late.
I can tell you this much, you look simply stunning in your profile picture (I'm forced to assume that's you). I've learned through my experiences that if a person doesn't speak his/her mind about something, an opportunity is lost. I don't like to lose opportunities, so win or lose, I go for it. It sounds like the guys in your life are a little... flaky by comparison. I could be wrong, and there are definitely facets of your situation that I am not aware of, but I'd say that if none of the straight ones are actively pursuing you, there's something odd there.

I don't know, Mediaboy, this sounds great in theory and for you I'm sure it's true but in a world filled with many, many fat phobic men I haven't found this to be the case. I'm really not an insecure woman, at all. I'm with someone now who treats me wonderfully. But before this awesome dude I was friend zoned, a lot. It does exist.

Guys would spend hours talking to me, laughing with me, flirting with me but the problem was they didn't want to have sex with me because I was a fat girl. Or if they secretly did, they were way too much of a pussy to admit to anyone else. Secret sex might as well be the friend zone because you're not getting a relationship from that. I'm like 90% sure that if I showed up on their doorstep 70 lbs thinner all of a sudden they'd realize "I've always been into you!"

Now to be fair I'm still in college so maybe this a mentality that some men grow out of. And maybe most men aren't as fat phobic as these winners I've been blessed to know -___- but my experience has been that the friend zone does exist and it sucks. I've just learned not to play that game anymore. If a guy doesn't make a move within a few weeks you're heading down friend zone territory fast. Short of a radical physical transformation I have yet to figure out how to get out.
I know I grew out of that. In fact, my mentality on that level has always been different than that of society. I've been shy about things in my life, but never my adoration of the Rubenesque woman. Physical size has never been an issue for me, just mental size; I can't stand a woman that can't think her way out of a situation, or holds outdated prejudices about herself or others.

imbedded links don't work.
You're the only one who has complained of this (not that I'm saying you're wrong). I'll link again:

http://youtu.be/IGK2KprU-To

That's all for now, more to come...
 

Miskatonic

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I can't speak for women who are friend zoned but in my experience most of the men who complain about being in the friend zone are the kind of men who hover around a woman being nice to her and thinking that because they're nice to the woman that means she owes them sex or love. Either that or they just don't get that no means no and hang on to something far past being shot down, making it awkward and weird all around.

The friendzone is super easy to avoid. You gotta be yourself, you gotta talk to the girl like she's a person and not just something you seek to conquer, and you gotta understand that if she's not interested, she's not interested, and no amount of being nice is gonna change that.

I've been in the friendzone. I know what it's like. But once I realized that I was putting myself in it and changed my mindset and my approach when it came to women, not only was I able to cultivate better friendships with women that didn't go all weird and awkward, but I also felt better about myself because I didn't let myself fall into a cycle of obsession over "the one". It all comes down to this; if you like someone, ask them if they want to get together sometime. Obviously don't be creepy fast about it, but don't wait too long, either. And don't disguise it as just wanting to hang out as friends. You like her. Make it known. If she is interested, cool. If she's not, she's not, and at least you've got a friend now. Just don't let that interest fester. You'll be so busy pining over the one who doesn't like you back that you'll miss the one who does.

There's no need to torture yourself by constantly hoping that she'll change your mind if you're just nice enough.
 

dharmabean

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The friendzone is super easy to avoid. You gotta be yourself, you gotta talk to the girl like she's a person and not just something you seek to conquer, and you gotta understand that if she's not interested, she's not interested, and no amount of being nice is gonna change that.

Couldn't agree more.
 

mediaboy

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I don't know, Mediaboy, this sounds great in theory...


Chicken shit & closeted FA's is pretty much it's own thread.

Secret sexers deserve their own tidy corner of hell.

FYI I used to be introduced at parties by my friends as, "This is Mediaboy, he likes fat chicks."

What you're describing is something a lot of ladies on this board have been through.

My personal advice with regard to being secret sex'd and friend zoned is forget those guys. You deserve better. Kick that shit head to the curb and move on to the next one. If its costs you a week to find out some one is a complete douche then consider it a bargain, best to found it sooner rather than say in a year.
 

CastingPearls

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If its costs you a week to find out some one is a complete douche then consider it a bargain, best to found it sooner rather than say in a year.
Or two.


No truer words were ever spoken.

or erm..typed.
 

samuraiscott

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When I was younger, being friend zoned was a big deal. Like, I couldn't understand why I was always in that category. I realized that sometimes being told you were a friend and nothing more could be a blessing. I have been lead on before by girls that really had no interest in me romantically but pretended that they were. At least most of the women whom friend zoned me could be honest and say, hey we can be friends, great friends even, but nothing more. I can always use real friends in my life. Also later I learned that sometimes being a friend is better than being involved romantically with some people.

But anywhos, that's my experience.
 

bmann0413

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I can't speak for women who are friend zoned but in my experience most of the men who complain about being in the friend zone are the kind of men who hover around a woman being nice to her and thinking that because they're nice to the woman that means she owes them sex or love. Either that or they just don't get that no means no and hang on to something far past being shot down, making it awkward and weird all around.

The friendzone is super easy to avoid. You gotta be yourself, you gotta talk to the girl like she's a person and not just something you seek to conquer, and you gotta understand that if she's not interested, she's not interested, and no amount of being nice is gonna change that.

I've been in the friendzone. I know what it's like. But once I realized that I was putting myself in it and changed my mindset and my approach when it came to women, not only was I able to cultivate better friendships with women that didn't go all weird and awkward, but I also felt better about myself because I didn't let myself fall into a cycle of obsession over "the one". It all comes down to this; if you like someone, ask them if they want to get together sometime. Obviously don't be creepy fast about it, but don't wait too long, either. And don't disguise it as just wanting to hang out as friends. You like her. Make it known. If she is interested, cool. If she's not, she's not, and at least you've got a friend now. Just don't let that interest fester. You'll be so busy pining over the one who doesn't like you back that you'll miss the one who does.

There's no need to torture yourself by constantly hoping that she'll change your mind if you're just nice enough.


I was about to say something about the so-called "friend zone," but he summed it up already.

I blame Tumblr for giving me this mindset. lol
 

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