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The "Friend Zone"

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superodalisque

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Guy toys are dirt cheap when compared to the expenses associated with having a family. Family is why I'm always broke. This year we spent $16,000 on health insurance for our family of seven, another $1,700 for out of pocket healthcare expenses, $13,000 on child care, $4,800 on insurance for four cars, .... . Luckily the states of California and (ironically) Texas and Alabama have picked up most of the college and grad school expenses for our two oldest (total of roughly $200,000 so far -- thanks guys).

I sold my 1968 Oldsmobile 88 convertible and motorcycle for law school money thinking I'd buy nicer ones when I graduated. Silly me -- I'm driving a 13-year-old Volvo station wagon (the closest I get to motorcycles these days is when I walk by the Honda dealer on the way to court).
hopefully what you traded your oldsmobile and motorcycle in for was worth it;). if it isn't i'm sorry. but evidently,at the time, something was more important than your guy toys and that was exactly what i meant.

most people don't start off with such large families or such large expenses. most people these days are cash strapped. i doubt that when people really fall for each other they have the calculator out--and they shouldn't. life is short. best to get on with living it. life is a struggle. to me love makes that struggle matter. but also the thing to keep in mind is that married men are generally financially better off and live longer. but this really doesn't have much to do with being in the friend zone.

if someone wants a woman he knows what to do. if he doesn't want to he should just leave her alone. he shouldn't expect her to stop living just because he is interested but not interested enough to do something about it. in fact if he really cared about her and could not afford to live happily with her he would let her go so that she would be able to find someone she could have that with because everyone deserves a chance at that. really loving someone means wanting the best for them. IMO as a woman if someone doesn't really love you he isn't worth wasting your time with. better off looking for THE one.
 

KittyKitten

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Speaking of being nice, it seems that most guys don't like nice girls either. They love to stay in dramatic relationships. Don't ever be a rebound girl to a guy who just came from a traumatic relationship....they would hop back to the nutjob hussy in no time! I have been there twice including recently. Many guys want a bitchy woman that puts them through misery, make no mistake about it. That hooks them! They don't want a woman that respects them, treats them nicely, makes sweet love to them, no, they want the mean ones.
 

Jon Blaze

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Speaking of being nice, it seems that most guys don't like nice girls either. They love to stay in dramatic relationships. Don't ever be a rebound girl to a guy who just came from a traumatic relationship....they would hop back to the nutjob hussy in no time! I have been there twice including recently. Many guys want a bitchy woman that puts them through misery, make no mistake about it. That hooks them! They don't want a woman that respects them, treats them nicely, makes sweet love to them, no, they want the mean ones.
We all have different perspectives, but I strongly disagree. Some guys enjoy a little strife, as well the thrill of having to catch, but I've met very few who enjoy it at the level you are describing.
 

Dr. Feelgood

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We all have different perspectives, but I strongly disagree. Some guys enjoy a little strife, as well the thrill of having to catch, but I've met very few who enjoy it at the level you are describing.
Few, fortunately, but they're there. Think about women who get entangled with abusive boyfriends ... over and over and over. These guys KK is talking about are their male counterparts.
 

bigmac

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Speaking of being nice, it seems that most guys don't like nice girls either. They love to stay in dramatic relationships. Don't ever be a rebound girl to a guy who just came from a traumatic relationship....they would hop back to the nutjob hussy in no time! I have been there twice including recently. Many guys want a bitchy woman that puts them through misery, make no mistake about it. That hooks them! They don't want a woman that respects them, treats them nicely, makes sweet love to them, no, they want the mean ones.
Certain amount of truth here. The trick is to find a woman with just the right amount of crazy. Too little and you're bored -- too much and you end up with unwanted police activity.
 

bigmac

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hopefully what you traded your oldsmobile and motorcycle in for was worth it;). if it isn't i'm sorry. but evidently,at the time, something was more important than your guy toys and that was exactly what i meant.

most people don't start off with such large families or such large expenses. most people these days are cash strapped. i doubt that when people really fall for each other they have the calculator out--and they shouldn't. life is short. best to get on with living it. life is a struggle. to me love makes that struggle matter. but also the thing to keep in mind is that married men are generally financially better off and live longer. but this really doesn't have much to do with being in the friend zone.

if someone wants a woman he knows what to do. if he doesn't want to he should just leave her alone. he shouldn't expect her to stop living just because he is interested but not interested enough to do something about it. in fact if he really cared about her and could not afford to live happily with her he would let her go so that she would be able to find someone she could have that with because everyone deserves a chance at that. really loving someone means wanting the best for them. IMO as a woman if someone doesn't really love you he isn't worth wasting your time with. better off looking for THE one.
No regrets -- my life's pretty good.

While it would be nice to think that love can conquer all the reality is that without adequate resources men are not going to commit to marriage. This is a historical fact. Marriage and family formation rates plunged in the 1930s and in post soviet Russia.

I'm thinking your post assumes some facts that may not be true:

First, the assumption that if guys just tried a little harder they'd be able to support a family (or even just be able to carry their own weight in a childless couple). Unfortunately the country is full of guys still living in their parents homes. A few years ago these guys may have been jokes. Today their ranks includes many hard working guys who have done everything right.

Second, the idea that if a guy doesn't have the resources to contribute to a family should "just leave her alone" has some ramifications. You seem to think that if the deadbeat just slinks off into the night she'll "be able to find someone she could have that with because everyone deserves a chance at that." The problem is that in today's economy the next guy is no more likely to be economically viable. If current income inequality trends continue ever increasing portions of society will never be able to enjoy stable relationships.

Third, its totally possible that married men live longer not because they got married but because they had the resources to get married (i.e. because richer people live longer).
 

superodalisque

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No regrets -- my life's pretty good.

While it would be nice to think that love can conquer all the reality is that without adequate resources men are not going to commit to marriage. This is a historical fact. Marriage and family formation rates plunged in the 1930s and in post soviet Russia.

I'm thinking your post assumes some facts that may not be true:

First, the assumption that if guys just tried a little harder they'd be able to support a family (or even just be able to carry their own weight in a childless couple). Unfortunately the country is full of guys still living in their parents homes. A few years ago these guys may have been jokes. Today their ranks includes many hard working guys who have done everything right.

Second, the idea that if a guy doesn't have the resources to contribute to a family should "just leave her alone" has some ramifications. You seem to think that if the deadbeat just slinks off into the night she'll "be able to find someone she could have that with because everyone deserves a chance at that." The problem is that in today's economy the next guy is no more likely to be economically viable. If current income inequality trends continue ever increasing portions of society will never be able to enjoy stable relationships.

Third, its totally possible that married men live longer not because they got married but because they had the resources to get married (i.e. because richer people live longer).
good try but no cigar ;)

it's not about guys trying harder it's about whether they want to use the lack of funds as an excuse. lots of poor people manage.

and yes, if a man does not want to marry when poor and a woman wants marriage she should not be pressured to wait on him when he wants to if ever. something is always going to be not quite right. and, you're assuming the economy will always be bad and it wont.

and no, because married men are more upwardly mobile and men who are married are usually happier, less lonely and have someone to help look after their health and that is why they live longer. mathematically it doesn't make sense to say that most married men are wealthy when they marry since wealthy men are less than 2% of the whole population. who is doing the rest of the marrying? arithmetic:)

men are also not in as short of a supply as society would have women believe. we can even leave the country for a partner if need be. it's also easier for women to have the same sex partner they couldn't have in the past so no need to find a man to pretend with or to choose a man at all if you're bisexual.

marriage rates did not plunge because of lack of male income but because women had more income and more choices. so women in the past who were forced to marry for financial support had other options. when women have choices they marry less. women now can afford to marry for love. they can have children alone. its not about love conquering anything but the recognition that loving is a part of living and a life without love of some kind is pretty piss poor. hence the concern about being in the friend zone.
 

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Overall, I think that being told "let's just be friends" is almost always viewed as a snub and rejection. Even the word "just" implies less in this context. Let's just go to a movie (instead of an expensive dinner). Let's just go with the Toyota (instead of the Lexus). And so on.

To most, being told to be "just friends" pretty much means "get lost" or "stay away from me," and not that friendship is really invited. If we make romantic overtures and are rebuffed, it's a rejection, no matter how you look at it.

Which is too bad as there are indeed situations where we truly cherish someone as a friend, but just do not want more. I had a very close friend for years whom I truly cherished, but despite being very clear that I loved her as a friend, she saw that as simply waiting until there was a good time to take it beyond that. When that did not happen, the friend viciously turned against me. That made me sad as it became clear to me that it never was friendship she had sought.

I wish there were better ways of going about the "just friends" thing. It's never "just" friends. Being friends is a great, wonderful thing, knowing that you can hang out with someone, discuss everything, and that there are no romanic motives. It's unfortunate that the "just friends" thing sort of devalues friendship, makes it look like the sort of interaction when you're not deemed good or desirable enough for more.

You could even argue that being "just friends is a more desirable thing than being romantically involved. But as long as being "just friends" is viewed as a rebuff or second best to being accepted as a romantic partner, a lot of wonderful opportunities to interact with others are lost.
 

superodalisque

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now i can definitely agree with that. it also implies a healthy respectful honesty necessary between people that won't lead to anger etc... no resentment needed. the problem comes when people want to force a sexual connection even though it's not beneficial to the other person. it makes me wonder how much of it is true sadness at not having that connection with someone or mainly ego. egos don't have much of a place between either real friends or lovers.
 

gangstadawg

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Guy toys are dirt cheap when compared to the expenses associated with having a family. Family is why I'm always broke. This year we spent $16,000 on health insurance for our family of seven, another $1,700 for out of pocket healthcare expenses, $13,000 on child care, $4,800 on insurance for four cars, .... . Luckily the states of California and (ironically) Texas and Alabama have picked up most of the college and grad school expenses for our two oldest (total of roughly $200,000 so far -- thanks guys).

I sold my 1968 Oldsmobile 88 convertible and motorcycle for law school money thinking I'd buy nicer ones when I graduated. Silly me -- I'm driving a 13-year-old Volvo station wagon (the closest I get to motorcycles these days is when I walk by the Honda dealer on the way to court).
and this is why im glad im single and do have any kids. shoot i should but stock in trojan. they have saved me from alot.
 

superodalisque

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i have a question for both guys and girls. when you were put in the friend zone do you think you were really ready for that relationship? were you feeling alone ad left out because friends had partners? were you basically physically attracted and wanted to see what a sexual relationship would be like? at the time what were your intentions towards the person and was that any different from what they were looking for overall?
 

gangstadawg

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and this is why im glad im single and do have any kids. shoot i should but stock in trojan. they have saved me from alot.
yeah i had to quote my self to fix errors in my previous post. damn G19 keyboard.

its supposed to say "and this is why im glad im single and dont have any kids. shoot i should buy stock in trojan. they have saved me from alot."
 

CarlaSixx

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i have a question for both guys and girls. when you were put in the friend zone do you think you were really ready for that relationship? were you feeling alone ad left out because friends had partners? were you basically physically attracted and wanted to see what a sexual relationship would be like? at the time what were your intentions towards the person and was that any different from what they were looking for overall?
I must say there's a difference between being friend zoned and being friends with benefits.

Sometimes their intention is different. Most of the time they're single and activly looking wen I am looking at them.

I'm always feeling alone and left out.

I always think I'm ready for that particular relationship at the time. Even if I get bored with partners easily.
 

superodalisque

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yeah i had to quote my self to fix errors in my previous post. damn G19 keyboard.

its supposed to say "and this is why im glad im single and dont have any kids. shoot i should buy stock in trojan. they have saved me from alot."
well done young man. good not to do what you know you aren't ready for.
 

superodalisque

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I must say there's a difference between being friend zoned and being friends with benefits.

Sometimes their intention is different. Most of the time they're single and activly looking wen I am looking at them.

I'm always feeling alone and left out.

I always think I'm ready for that particular relationship at the time. Even if I get bored with partners easily.

because you feel alone and left out and you get bored once you're with someone, is it really that you're into someone or you just want to have someone to be like everybody else? if the situation was reversed would you be that happy about it? would it be okay with you if someone wants you only because they felt lonely and left out? is that real?

a lot of young women kinda do this. some experienced guys can feel it if you're basically in it to be like "everybody" else. it doesn't make anyone a bad person. it is just a stage people go through sometimes.

i have a friends who love fat women who say they can often feel like some kind of status symbol to some of the girls they've tried to date. they have Muriel's Wedding syndrome. it's as though the fact that they're with him makes them okay fat somehow. i'm not saying you're doing that but i'm just using this as a jumping off point in the discussion. i think that is something that fat girls have to watch out for even though thin women do that a whole lot too. maybe it's a good idea to be careful and ask ourselves what kinds of needs we really expect these people to fulfill for us.

same with the guys. do they basically just want a sex partner, status symbol to prove the're wanted and someone to take away the loneliness or do they really have feelings for the person? do they fake it, the relationship part, and convince themselves they have feelings or pretend they have feelings for someone just because it's convenient.

sometimes people get put in the friend zone because that's what they really actually are
 

CarlaSixx

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I don't do the status symbol thing. If I get with someone, it's. Ecause of true attraction to them and not the label they could bring. I do not rush into anything and never will.

So no, I'm not like anything you've described.

I'm not a serial dater. I've gone years without genuinely entering a relationship. I'm always lonely, but I don't rush things just to change that.

It is very unfair of you to assume that I get bored with Partners because I want the status. It's a wrongful assumption.

I only enter a relationship out of genuine interest. But the Problem is that they stop being interesting once in a relationship. And that bores me and pisses me off. THEY wanted the status. I went in for the genuine.
 

superodalisque

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I don't do the status symbol thing. If I get with someone, it's. Ecause of true attraction to them and not the label they could bring. I do not rush into anything and never will.

So no, I'm not like anything you've described.

I'm not a serial dater. I've gone years without genuinely entering a relationship. I'm always lonely, but I don't rush things just to change that.

It is very unfair of you to assume that I get bored with Partners because I want the status. It's a wrongful assumption.

I only enter a relationship out of genuine interest. But the Problem is that they stop being interesting once in a relationship. And that bores me and pisses me off. THEY wanted the status. I went in for the genuine.
sorry if you took it personally. it was not an assumption since i know absolutely nothing about you personally and we've never met. that is why i asked a question. also i wanted to open the subject up. as for guys getting bored, that's pretty par for the course when they're young and because of how society has changed. a lot of people both male and female have that better thing around the corner stuff going on because the net makes the menu so big.
 

bigmac

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I only enter a relationship out of genuine interest. But the Problem is that they stop being interesting once in a relationship. And that bores me and pisses me off. THEY wanted the status. I went in for the genuine.

Been there -- I've got a long list relationships that started out promising but quickly went stale (I'm thinking I'm easily bored). It can take quite awhile to meet someone whose interesting enough to hold your attention. Over the years I have discovered that interesting people tend to be more common in interesting places. I doubt I would have met anyone I'd want to spend my life with if I'd stayed in the small Alberta town where I attended high school.
 

sophie lou

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I got "friend zoned" by one of my chat mates at the beginning of last year. It was a very strange situation. We had been getting on great but we were not what you could call an item. We would just chat some nights and then other nights if the mood was right we would have other kinds of fun. Then all of a sudden he decided we had to end our fun times because he had met someone else at a new years party. I wont lie i was really hurt by the whole situation. We still spoke after but things were never the same.

I wasn't bothered that he had met someone. To be honest i was pleased for him as i knew that he had been single for quite a while and because of various circumstances it was not like we could ever be a propper couple. I was happy just being friends with benefits even if it was just over the internet. I just couldn't understand why it all had to change i was happy to be his other woman because i thought we had something special. I can still remember how much it hurt! not because he had found someone but because he just dropped me like i was a piece of rubbish.

Since then i have met some incredible people online and have a girlfriend who i love to bits we live apart because i still live with my parents and they would not approve of our relationship but the future still looks good
 

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