The "sin" of insecurities

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Ruffie

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Why is it a sin to sometimes feel down about your appearance? As women we are constantly berated in the media with ads to tell us that we are needing this product to make us thinner, younger looking, get rid of cellulite, manage our hair and so on. If we are to be honest as human beings we all take a look in the mirror sometimes and look at something we do not like about ourselves and are frustrated by it. And being women we want to share that feeling with our sisters here to just vent about it and yes even get support and suggestions how to change that feeling. Yet there is sort of an unwritten rule that because this is a site that celebrates fat, that we are not supposed to ever express any feeling that goes against that however fleeting it might be.
In my mind it is the balance of the light and shadow sides of ourselves and the acknowledgement of them and that sharing of insecurities, how we overcame them and even how we are woking on them makes the bonds of sisterhood grow. What is your take?
 

Tau

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I think there is a resistance to people talking about how insecure they are about their bodies for two reasons:

1. This is a site for FAs - first and foremost a sight where admirers of fat gather to talk about, look at and admire fat. Its been said time and time again, caused a great deal of drama and still the fact remains. Said FAs are probably not too keen coming to a site where they are meant to be admiring all these beauteous fat creatures and said fat creatures don't like themselves :p It's got to be a boner kill for most people and so there's an unspoken resistance to that kind of talk from that quarter.

2. A large number of said fat creatures are also on Dims to avoid the 'oh woe is me I hate xyz of my fat body and wish i was w thinner.' I know it makes me tired. I hear it day in and day out in real life, on TV, radio - every-fucking-where! And so I confess I get a little bleak coming on here and reading about all these women who cannot stand themselves.

That said I agree that it is wrong to censor that kind of talk. Fat acceptance, body acceptance, is a journey and we're all at different stages of it so what's annoying to me is life altering to somebody else. I think Dims in general would really benefit from more tolerance. There's a lot of anger here - understandably - but it really gets boring when you see so many people here who are the epitome of what the world hates and disapproves of spewing the same intolerant shit at others all over the board. LIVE AND LET LIVE PEOPLE! Let us speak and share and cry and laugh. We are not weaker for sharing our differences, our experiences, we are stronger for it so I agree Ruffie let the censorship stop. I know I'm far more tired of that than hearing somebody complain about the size of their tummy.
 

LJ Rock

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First of all, I hope that I am allowed to chime in on this issue even though I am not a big beautiful woman myself; there are so many boards on this forum now it's hard sometimes to know where I am supposed to be! lol But I do think this is an interesting topic and I wanted to share my thoughts, if it's alright.

Naturally I like the idea of Dimensions being a size-positive, image-positive place. There are plenty of conflicts and disagreements that go on here, and some occasional negativity, but all in all I think Dims acts well as a counter-ballance to the countless places in society where we are told we are not good enough, not good looking enough, and need to do this-that-or-the-other to be better. It is a place where we can feel comfortable to be ourselves, be accepted for who we are and maybe find a little encouragement.

All that being said, I am a perenial advocate for free speech, and I strongly believe that people here (and everywhere) should feel free and encouraged to speak openly and honestly about how they are feeling. We shouldn't be forced to pretend we are feeling secure about our selves and our appearances if we are not. No one should ever have to feel like they need to lie about their true feelings in order to maintain some sort of status quo. And you know, maybe in being open and honest about our insecurities we may come to find the encouragement and support we are seeking a little bit faster.

As human beings we all have something we feel insecure about, and we could all use a little bit assurance and encouragement now and again. Some might feel it shows weakness to display your vulnerablities so blatantly as to come out and say "I am feeling insecure about myself." But perhaps in doing so we are taking a first step towards finding a place in ourselves where we can feel good about who we are, and personally I think that takes a lot of strength.
 

DearPrudence

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I think sometimes us fatties forget that we aren't alone in our insecurities. Some of the most attractive people I've ever known have been terribly insecure. Even people we idolize have moments of weakness where they hate the way they look. Fat girls didn't invent this trend. The idea that we aren't encouraged to admit our insecurities seems a little silly, considering being insecure is less of a "fat-girl" issue and more of a "being human" issue.

As far as FA's go, I'm sure they get tired of hearing about our body anxieties. They already hear enough about how liking fat women/men is weird and what not, so it's almost like hearing it from us cements that notion as fact.

But in the same breath, I hope they don't assume they are the only one's who deal with insecure partners. I have no doubt that people with thin partners probably deal with the same bullshit that FA's do.

Take solace in the fact that you aren't alone. :happy:
 

Tracyarts

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Pressure to accept is just as oppressive as pressure to not accept.

Shutting up so that you can be admired is just as dehumanizing as shutting up so that you can be criticized.

Feeling as if you should "just get over it" when it comes to your insecurities is just as dishonest as feeling as if you are obligated to obsess on each and every one of them.

Women, be they fat or thin, walk a sharp line when it comes to how they express their feelings about themselves. There are so many expectations to be met that it's nearly impossible to just be honest about it. I have been among groups of women where it is extremely taboo to admit that you aren't completely in love with your body. I have also been among groups of women where it is extremely taboo to admit that you are. The expectation may be on either side of the spectrum but it's an expectation all the same.

Honesty is messy though. I can see why it's easier to conform to groupthink.

Tracy
 

LJ Rock

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I will say that as a man (and as an FA) confidence is attractive in a woman, just as I am sure women are attracted to confidence in men. We like to see any prospective mates as being really sure of themselves, who they are and what they want (and hopefully at least part of what they want is US.) But things like honestly, sincerity and humility are also very attractive qualities; personally I feel honored whenever someone chooses to share something with me that they wrestling with, and I think that in being a friend to someone above all else, it is good to be able to share in our personal struggles as well as our personal triumphs, helping and encouraging one another whenever possible, but mostly just being there to listen and be supportive.
 

Donna

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My husband had these quotes on his memo board for a while:

"Confidence comes not from always being right but from not fearing to be wrong." (Peter T. Mcintyre)

"The courage to be is the courage to accept oneself, in spite of being unacceptable." (Paul Tillich)

I think these quotes apply here. There is a strength in acknowledging the not so shiny aspects of ourselves. Self awareness is a cornerstone of developing a healthy self esteem, yes? So I think it stands to reason that a healthy self esteem would have times when it wavers. But as Tracy mentions, honesty is messy and it can be easier to just follow the crowd.

I think some of us strive to walk our own path and not follow either crowd. I personally was accused of being negative because I am not 100% "yay, being fat is the bomb!" And while I understand the resistance here at Dims and the pressure to follow the crowd, I still chose not to. This is my path and mine alone to walk.
 

gobettiepurple

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OMG I love the above quotes! I concur with pretty much everything everyone has said . . .

I think its sometimes helpful to think of confidence as a state of being and not as a commodity. As a commodity, you either have it or you dont. As state of being, you can be confident and still have feelings of ugliness, fatiness or any other -ness without stripping away your primary state of being confident. Perhaps, if more FA's looked at it that way, as a temporary bought/mood/emotion secondary to the overall state of being, then perhaps they would be more understanding of the reasons that women seek small affirmations from outside sources. Its difficult to tell the difference between an overall state of being and just a mood while in the midst of said temporary state. At times when emotions, which in women run very broad and deep, seem to over run our lives, outside support us helpful. But they are just moods and not permanent states of being . . .

plus, more specifically, and as my fat gals can understand, some days your weight, which doesnt necessarily fluctuate all that much, can feel vastly different compared to yesterday. I think we also have to take into account perspective and perception, which can change and vary depending on our altered mood, while our state of being remains pretty much the same.

I think thats the hardest thing to describe to our FA/FFA's that only want to praise our bodies or love us - its hard to participate in someone loving or even liking you, if you cant get passed a temporary mood or emotion. Also, they are not able to internalize all that we internalize as the primary "being" [for lack of a better word lol] and they have no idea what is going on inside of us. Its nice to know that some people are interested in taking a deeper look, instead of just saying "she's another fat girl that hates her body", which may only be a temporary reality.

Wow, that was heavily philosophical, I apologize in hindsight! lol!

No wonder men think we are crazy, we have so much running through our minds, that at times it may seem contrary to our characters.
 

Jes

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2. A large number of said fat creatures are also on Dims to avoid the 'oh woe is me I hate xyz of my fat body and wish i was w thinner.' I know it makes me tired. I hear it day in and day out in real life, on TV, radio - every-fucking-where! And so I confess I get a little bleak coming on here and reading about all these women who cannot stand themselves.
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I think that there's a wide chasm between 'i sometimes wish i was xyz' and 'i cannot stand myself.' I think that in order to let people be who they really are, the full totality of who they are, we have to allow them to speak authentically about their experiences. I know you said that you don't believe in censorship, Tau, so my comment isn't addressing you specifically. The issue comes up now and then, and I always feel that it's not a 'moment of weakness' that gets away from us when we think or say or post these things, it's a 'moment of honesty.' It's how we honestly feel at that moment. And 5 moments later, we might not feel it anymore. Or maybe we will. And 5 moments after that, we'll be doing something different and not thinking about like or dislike at all. Selective honesty isn't helpful and doesn't help people be who they really are, or help us accept one another.
 

superodalisque

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i think everyone should be allowed to express their insecurities or securities. its how they really feel. its what their reality is. if you never have or no longer feel insecure its important to express that too so that people who are aiming at that know that how they've been thinking about their bodies isn't the only choice they have of relating to it. i think the problem especially on this forum comes when there is a tension between allowing catharsis and projecting happiness and confidence for uplift. its a hard balance to keep and we aren't giving each other enough room to be ourselves or even make any human mistakes. we second guess each other's motives entirely too much when it might not even be our business to. we over analyse everything people say because IMO we seem to be sure that everybody out there might hate us as much as we seem to hate ourselves.

for me personally i'd like everyone here to know that when i say i haven't felt insecure about my size i mean it. its not to attract anyone since i don't date FAs. its not to say i'm better than anyone else either because i'm not. its just to say that it happens and there is more than just one fat reality. not everyone fat is or has to be miserable or abused. and thats not to say people who have experienced that are somehow substandard. what it does say is that if there is more than one fat reality somewhere along the line we can try and determine what fat reality we want to have in the future. we don't have to give up or give in to a negative inevitability. that can be a great for anyone fat whether its our friends, children, lovers or ourselves. its not written in stone that you're going to hate yourself for the rest of your life or that anyone else will have to either.

i definitely understand a lot of the criticism about people who kind of browbeat others about being so insecure sometimes. its not fair. thats definitely true. sometimes we just need to be patient and let people say what they feel they need to say to people who should understand at least on some level. but i think its important to know that the intent is not always what people might think it is. sometimes its just hard to watch people waste their lives feeling ugly unattractive and unwanted when you know it isn't true. and its worrying if you see them constantly relating to that instead distancing themselves from it. but not everyone is the same in how they see life. its true, that has to be respected. but there are people here who are honestly afraid for people who are always on the downside. its not just that its hard to watch but its also so terribly damaging in so many ways to the person who can't seem to pull out of it. not only that, it can be catching.

human beings are creatures of habit. if it becomes your habit to focus on what you feel are the negatives about yourself thats whats going to influence your life. when people go into therapy to help depression they do try to recognize exactly what is depressing them but that is not a perpetual state. the things that bring them out of depression is the focus on the joys of life things that they can do that they enjoy and increase the happiness in their life. most of the meat isn't is in the constant repetition of things that depress or bring them down. any decent therapist will help you to take that out of the focus of your life. whatever you fixate on is what your life will become. just like when women here worry that someone is fixated on the fat--well some folks can get fixated on the misery. in some ways it can be just as much of a fetish of sorts.

i say a lot of hard things about insecurity because i believe that sometimes thats what it takes especially in view of how many people in here and out there in the world who really want to make it okay to fat hate --whether its in others or yourself. i do believe there is a payoff to it like anything else not so positive that we do in our lives. i see insecurities as an excuse to escape something that varies depending on the person. i also see other people profiting in more ways than one in keeping us that way.

for women, we get punished a lot for liking ourselves, being strong and enjoying our sexuality. we see that right here. instead of saying that we are at different stages and exploring different parts of ourselves and enjoying it we end up calling people pic whores , attention whores etc... making them second guess their value and worth as a human being with our criticisms, meanwhile most of us have had our day and should let others have theirs. if fat women have the need to be told they are beautiful why not oblige? its not a bad thing to want that and need that especially when you might have heard just the opposite most of your life from size prejudice people. if the rest of us can't understand that who will? at least we can give each other that loving gift without so much miserly withholding of affection and care. if we can't then what are we here for anyway? what else are we saving our approval for? i thought we were here to uplift each other?

i'm sorry if people feel invalidated by the push to do different, think different and be different. thats wrong and its definitely not my personal intent. but i can honestly say that i'd rather be looked at like that than just being another person who makes it okay to hate ourselves fat --because really its not okay.
 

AnnMarie

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I don't think insecurities are a sin at all. I think they're very human, normal, required emotions. If you never feel insecure about anything at all, then you're likely not fully in touch with who you are or the world around you. I don't think insecurities should rule our world, I think we should try hard to overcome them and appreciate the progress we make when we take strides away from them.

But being human is not a sin, and insecurities, whether of body, mind, ability, emotion, etc... those are just part of the deal being a social, living, breathing human being. The key, for me, is knowing that YOUR value of yourself is the key and not allowing the judging of others to determine your own self-worth. Good or bad.
 

Tracy

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As human beings we all have something we feel insecure about, and we could all use a little bit assurance and encouragement now and again. Some might feel it shows weakness to display your vulnerablities so blatantly as to come out and say "I am feeling insecure about myself." But perhaps in doing so we are taking a first step towards finding a place in ourselves where we can feel good about who we are, and personally I think that takes a lot of strength.
Beautifully Stated!
 

1love_emily

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Pressure to accept is just as oppressive as pressure to not accept.

Shutting up so that you can be admired is just as dehumanizing as shutting up so that you can be criticized.

Feeling as if you should "just get over it" when it comes to your insecurities is just as dishonest as feeling as if you are obligated to obsess on each and every one of them.

Women, be they fat or thin, walk a sharp line when it comes to how they express their feelings about themselves. There are so many expectations to be met that it's nearly impossible to just be honest about it. I have been among groups of women where it is extremely taboo to admit that you aren't completely in love with your body. I have also been among groups of women where it is extremely taboo to admit that you are. The expectation may be on either side of the spectrum but it's an expectation all the same.

Honesty is messy though. I can see why it's easier to conform to groupthink.

Tracy
This is exactly how I feel. I want to feel beautiful; sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't. I want to feel loved (and a lot of the time, I don't).
 

superodalisque

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i love what someone mentioned about assurance. part of that assurance just might be someone saying there is nothing about you that you SHOULD be insecure about. :)
 

ashmamma84

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I don't think insecurities are a sin at all. I think they're very human, normal, required emotions. If you never feel insecure about anything at all, then you're likely not fully in touch with who you are or the world around you. I don't think insecurities should rule our world, I think we should try hard to overcome them and appreciate the progress we make when we take strides away from them.

But being human is not a sin, and insecurities, whether of body, mind, ability, emotion, etc... those are just part of the deal being a social, living, breathing human being. The key, for me, is knowing that YOUR value of yourself is the key and not allowing the judging of others to determine your own self-worth. Good or bad.
Thank you for saying this. I never really buy it when people say they're never insecure either. Funny but some of the women I know in my personal life who claim to be as secure as they come are actually probably the most insecure people I've ever known. I wonder what that says/means? Maybe that people who truly are together/secure/etc don't necessarily have to tell people or scream it from the mountain tops that it will just show regardless. Like women who constantly call themselves Queens yet their crown is cracked. :confused:
 

BBW_Curious1

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Just a newbie chiming in...

I think it was well said by superodalisque in that as being BBW in a society which caters to and mostly adores thinner bodies it is more natural to be insecure and takes effort to feel confident--

It is psychologically proven that it is more difficult to unlearn previous information and re-learn new than it is to learn information never before presented. Therefore...(and this is in my case) all one's life they hear that fat=ugly and skinny=beautiful then one realizes and says to one-self "wait a *&^$%^***&%#@@ minute...I'M BEAUTIFUL TOO! there is still a process which takes place and some things which I myself have done have been mentioned in various places on this forum "look in a full length mirror and tell yourself you're beautiful" "see how long you can go without judging your own body (or that of someone else for that matter)" and for me personally it's telling that voice in your head to shut the #$%& up and do something "bold"--have your picture taken/take them yourself with and without clothes/lingerie etc, have sex with the lights on, be on top and don't be afraid to let him look at you...and the list could continue.

Doing these things does not mean that one will no longer feel insecure at times, but I can personally say that by loving yourself EVERYDAY and practicing it the insecurities decrease. "Confidence is sexy, and confidence is one size fits all"
 

littlefairywren

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Just a newbie chiming in...

I think it was well said by superodalisque in that as being BBW in a society which caters to and mostly adores thinner bodies it is more natural to be insecure and takes effort to feel confident--

It is psychologically proven that it is more difficult to unlearn previous information and re-learn new than it is to learn information never before presented. Therefore...(and this is in my case) all one's life they hear that fat=ugly and skinny=beautiful then one realizes and says to one-self "wait a *&^$%^***&%#@@ minute...I'M BEAUTIFUL TOO! there is still a process which takes place and some things which I myself have done have been mentioned in various places on this forum "look in a full length mirror and tell yourself you're beautiful" "see how long you can go without judging your own body (or that of someone else for that matter)" and for me personally it's telling that voice in your head to shut the #$%& up and do something "bold"--have your picture taken/take them yourself with and without clothes/lingerie etc, have sex with the lights on, be on top and don't be afraid to let him look at you...and the list could continue.

Doing these things does not mean that one will no longer feel insecure at times, but I can personally say that by loving yourself EVERYDAY and practicing it the insecurities decrease. "Confidence is sexy, and confidence is one size fits all"
Definitely easier said then done. But I agree, the boost to ones confidence if you can let go and accomplish these things is incredible.
 

Dr. P Marshall

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I think sometimes us fatties forget that we aren't alone in our insecurities. Some of the most attractive people I've ever known have been terribly insecure. Even people we idolize have moments of weakness where they hate the way they look. Fat girls didn't invent this trend. The idea that we aren't encouraged to admit our insecurities seems a little silly, considering being insecure is less of a "fat-girl" issue and more of a "being human" issue.

As far as FA's go, I'm sure they get tired of hearing about our body anxieties. They already hear enough about how liking fat women/men is weird and what not, so it's almost like hearing it from us cements that notion as fact.

But in the same breath, I hope they don't assume they are the only one's who deal with insecure partners. I have no doubt that people with thin partners probably deal with the same bullshit that FA's do.

Take solace in the fact that you aren't alone. :happy:
I hope it's OK if I post here too, since I'm not a BBW either, but LJ Rock already did, so....:p

You make good points in this post. As to your first point, I've known some actual famous people, the kind everyone is supposed to want to look like/be like and some of them are vastly more insecure than regular folks. In fact, I'd say the world of celebrity is filled with some of the most insecure people I've ever encountered. Not all of them, to be sure, but many. And everyone is insecure about some aspect of themselves at least sometimes.

I'm an FFA and you're right, fat admirers are by no means the only people who may encounter insecure partners. Even partners of F/FAs may find themselves with insecure partners.;) I hope no one minds me saying the following, this is not about making excuses for F/FAs at all, I'm more hoping that expressing what I see as an FFA when I read other F/FA posts might put the "confidence" issue in some perspective. Maybe make it easier to shrug off if it bothers some BBW and BHM to hear that stuff.

I think one of the reasons so many fat admirers push confidence as their #1 sexual fantasy is that they themselves feel a bit insecure in their position as fat admirers. I'm talking about the ones who make a huge deal out of confidence. I know no one wants a totally insecure mess of a partner, but I'm talking about people who expect inhuman confidence levels from anyone. I think a lot of fat admirers whether they admit it or not, ask themselves "is there something wrong with me?" and I think if they fear the answer might be yes, they want that extra reassurance. Of course, it's not the responsibility of fat people to make F/FAs secure in themselves, but I do think that lies at the heart of the confidence issue. Basically, if I were a fat person, the more someone talked on and on about confidence as the end all be all, the more red flags would go up. If they can't admit we're all human with the full range of emotions, they aren't prepared for reality.

I also wanted to say, from the standpoint of a woman on the boards, that I actually think the women of Dims as a group are very confident. I'm not only talking about being confident about their bodies. There are a lot of smart, opinionated, funny women who speak their minds here. It's one of the reasons I like this place and have stayed and have participated on the main boards despite not being a BBW or male/lesbian FA. I'm not sucking up either. I like it when I see other women as role models, or who make me feel good about/cooler about being a woman (I also value awesome men too, but we're on the BBW board right now:p). I just wanted to add my opinion as a woman who is an outsider on the BBW front and say that many, many of the BBW here make me proud to be a woman for a variety of reasons. And confidence can come in many varieties.
 

mossystate

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Many people who are not uber secure within, want partners who are uber confident...or else they will do their damndest to pick on the one ( or more ) thing they know will push the button in many people. When it comes to fat people and those who ' admire ' us...the battering ram used by some is to pretty much lay any struggle we have at the altar of our bodies. I read some things out here where the ' fa ' is going on and on about " confidence ", and I always wonder..........where and how do you stumble........then I just direct a " pfffffft " towards my computer screen, and immediately understand it is not a person I need to know. Why acknowledge your own insecurities, when the fat woman might have a large hoop skirt to hide behind. Humans are human...news at 11.
 

Dr. P Marshall

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Many people who are not uber secure within, want partners who are uber confident...or else they will do their damndest to pick on the one ( or more ) thing they know will push the button in many people. When it comes to fat people and those who ' admire ' us...the battering ram used by some is to pretty much lay any struggle we have at the altar of our bodies. I read some things out here where the ' fa ' is going on and on about " confidence ", and I always wonder..........where and how do you stumble........then I just direct a " pfffffft " towards my computer screen, and immediately understand it is not a person I need to know. Why acknowledge your own insecurities, when the fat woman might have a large hoop skirt to hide behind. Humans are human...news at 11.
I agree with you completely, especially the bolded part. I just get the feeling reading around the boards lately that sometimes newer members feel that the only option here is to project total confidence and an unrealistic worldview. The loudest voices from both sides of the fence are often hostile to any acknowledgment that people have a wide range of feelings about themselves and life experiences, whether fat or FA. I guess my point was even a lot of fat admirers find the "confidence cult" bizarre.
 

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