Tired of hearing about MJ

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exile in thighville

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just as a point of interest about discourse and moderated forums' obsessive nature to overquantify...the michael jackson r.i.p. thread (supposedly respect-only) was closed and this thread (critical discussion) remains open.
 

mergirl

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Right!. Especially as i think one of the mods is infact 'Bubbles' the monkey who is glad that his ex master and overlord has died and so frowns on the sympathy expressed. I don't know what happened to Bubbles but i do hope he is getting councelling at this sad time.
 

LillyBBBW

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If it had been anybody else, none of you would be flat out stating that there is " no way " he would hurt children. You would at least...pause. But, no, Michael Jackson was talented. It is normal to not want to believe when someone we like is accused of such heinous things...but to dismiss it so easily, that is what allows all kinds of evil to flourish. To not even pause? Scary.

Someone who does not have healthy, sexual relationships with adults...someone who was so very much abused when he was a kid, including things he experienced when on the road at such an early age...drug and alcohol abuser, which of course never gives courage to dark thoughts, noooooooo...has children, not related to him, sleeping in his bed...focuses on being charitable to children ( lots of child molesters do lots of good, and they are obsessed with being surrounded by kids....they...love...them )...can be ultra secretive when at home, surrounded by people who keep their mouths shut...has a keen eye for children who are troubled and come from not the best homes. Many molesters ( and people who commit all kinds of crimes against other human beings ) have convinced themselves that they are not harming the child(ren).


ANY other adult like this would not be viewed with glasses tinted like the roses in a tired Martha Stewart wedding bouquet. There would, at the very least, be a raised eyebrow. His musical talent was monumental. His ' personal life ' was not personal...not when you have, at the very least, more than questionable interaction with...children. Think of Jackson like you would the guy down the street, who works with kids,raises money, or creates, charities for kids....is like a child, himself (vsdjvsdbjvsdbvobsj! ). I wanted to throw something at my television when I saw celebwhore Deepak Chopra being interviewed. He was talking about how Jackson loved playing with his ( Chopra's ) kids, as well as his own. He regurgitated the crap about Jackson being like a child, and when asked if he had ever witnessed anything unseemly ( because if we have never learned anything else, we know that sexual abusers abuse EVERY child them come into contact with, especially children of friends, and extra especially kids of famous people, whose homes might also be rather...stable * eyeroll * )...Deephack was all, " oh...nonononono ".

It's one thing to have really thought about it, and struggle with how you view this man, needing to give a huge nod to his musical talent. I just find it scary...chilling...how so many ( and not just with Jackson ) so easily say, " oh, they could never do that ".

It's too bad that Jackson was ever a star. It is unfortunate that he could not have, at an early age, escaped...and received real help. He might have had a normal life, and, because of his wanting better for other looked over kids ( and I do believe part of him truly wanted this...abusers, like most people, are usually not 100% evil...there are parts of them that cry out for others ), he might have had a shot at taking that part of him that was trying to claw out from under the demands of fame, including his fans who wanted more, always more, and he could perhaps now be sitting as chair of a worldwide charity for children, or getting weary as a social worker, who still writes and performs music, but on his own terms. I think his fate was sealed, and the fates of those kids I absolutely believe he abused.

Maybe it is best that he moved on. For those who think I am saying I am glad he is dead, stick your fingers back in your ears...cover those eyes...don't remove the duct tape from your mouth.
Circumstantial evidence isn't proof of anything. People certainly have a right to make up their own minds about this but until this alleged child abuse underground railroad comes to light I think it's perfectly ok for people to mourn, reflect and assume innocence until there's proof. Assumptions are about all anyone can make at this point and I think it's unfair to insinuate something sinister about people who prefer one way of looking at things over the other.
 

morthius

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finally someone who is talking sense a great and finominal artist he was there are far mor things for us to be worried about.
Ok, this may make me seem like a cold hearted bitch, but I am so tired of hearing about Michael Jackson. I turn on the news because I want to see news, you know, about things going on in the world and ALL of the channels here local and national are ONLY about MJ.

Other people have died today. Wars are still going on. Crime did not stop happening. Politicians did not stop lying. MP's did not stop stealing money.

I understand the need to pay tribute to those who have made a difference, but come on! Is one human life worth more than the next??? I understand he made a difference in a lot of lives, but what about people in the red cross in foreign countries who die? We never hear about them and they are doing good for people....real good.

Grrr. I've probably pissed everyone off, but I really hate this obsession people have with celebrities. They are just people. People are born, people die.

PS-RIP MJ, this is nothing personal, you were human like the rest of us.
 

TraciJo67

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We'll never know the truth, not for sure ... just as the truth seldom comes to light in most cases involving child sexual abuse. I think that MJ did it. He fits the profile in many, many ways. The only thing that I'm 100% certain of is that I'd have never, under any circumstances, allowed my child to be alone with him. Those who are suggesting that MJ was innocent ... I'd ask you the same question: Would you be comfortable leaving your child in his care?

What haunts me is wondering if he did it to his own children, who are uniquely vulnerable, and they were 100% dependent on him. From what I read, they didn't go to school or interact with other children at all. How frightened they must be now :(

I can acknowledge that MJ did a lot of good ... a lot, a whole lot. In my mind, though, if he harmed one child, that pretty much erases any respect that I may have had for him (still love some of his music, though). He was a complicated man. Capable of great good and great evil. And I'm with Mossy on the sense of incredulity that someone can't be a pedophile because he's too childlike himself ... that is, to me, creepy sign #1 that he probably was. Had he not been a celebrity himself, I doubt that anyone would have had a hard time believing the children who did step forward and claim that they'd been molested. We doubt it now, only because there was a financial gain to be had. That clouds a lot of minds.

FWIW, had I been on the jury, I may have come to the same conclusion that they did. I'd have had a lot ... lot ... LOT of doubt, but without any kind of real evidence (even in the face of rather overwhelming circumstancial evidence, which they did have) I would likely have starting questioning the credibility of the starstruck morons who were those children's parents.
 

LillyBBBW

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It will always be their word against his, and there will always be people who choose to believe him.
I think also that people will be inclined to judge harshly someone who takes hush money when their child is sexually abused. Just as people judge a parent who allows their child to go hanging around there in the first place that judgement against them will become much more severe.
 

TraciJo67

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I think also that people will be inclined to judge harshly someone who takes hush money when their child is sexually abused. Just as people judge a parent who allows their child to go hanging around there in the first place that judgement against them will become much more severe.
Yes, it is why I said that I would probably have had a difficult time with finding MJ guilty, had I been on the jury. I may have decided another way, had it been a run-of-the-mill case involving some creepy unnamed guy down the street -- especially had I been given all of the circumstantial evidence that was a matter of record in MJ's case. The child's testimony would have had a bigger impact, as there wouldn't be money and fame clouding the issue. If sexual abuse happened, then the parents are just as to blame as MJ, in my opinion. The children, however, are blameless. If it's true, they are the victims -- not MJ, not their greedy, money-grubbing, fame-whoring parents, and certainly not us.
 

exile in thighville

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I think also that people will be inclined to judge harshly someone who takes hush money when their child is sexually abused. Just as people judge a parent who allows their child to go hanging around there in the first place that judgement against them will become much more severe.
i was asking because i honestly don't know, is someone who takes hush money still legally bound to silence after they die?
 

LillyBBBW

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i was asking because i honestly don't know, is someone who takes hush money still legally bound to silence after they die?
I don't know. I would assume so if there was a judge involved and so fourth. It would be legally binding so no one would be allowed to say a word unless they want to forfeit whatever compensation they were given, plus serve time for violating a judges order. My guess.
 

FaxMachine1234

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I can acknowledge that MJ did a lot of good ... a lot, a whole lot. In my mind, though, if he harmed one child, that pretty much erases any respect that I may have had for him (still love some of his music, though). He was a complicated man. Capable of great good and great evil. And I'm with Mossy on the sense of incredulity that someone can't be a pedophile because he's too childlike himself ... that is, to me, creepy sign #1 that he probably was. Had he not been a celebrity himself, I doubt that anyone would have had a hard time believing the children who did step forward and claim that they'd been molested. We doubt it now, only because there was a financial gain to be had. That clouds a lot of minds.
I can't think of a single case involving MJ where a child himself stepped for and it wasn't a child with his parents, with the latter doing most of the talking. With the case that got to trial, people said that when the kid finally took the stand, he was emotionless and didn't seem very invested in his testimony...almost as if he'd been coached by his parents and his attorney to say what he did. Color me surprised!

I don't think Jackson did it because he liked children too much to hurt them; he wanted to be their friends, not do bad things to them. However, it was still horrible judgement for these parents to leave their kids with the guy anyway, as he was a nutjob even if he wasn't a child abuser.
 

mango

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Farrah Fawcett dies and goes to heaven where she is met by St. Peter at the pearly gates. Looking over his books, he sees that she is permitted entrance. "Now, we don't advertise this, but when you come in, and you are worthy, you are granted one wish."



So Farrah thinks and thinks. "What I want most is to help the worlds children. So I wish the children of earth were all safe."



Bang, Michael Jackson dies.


:doh:
 

TraciJo67

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I can't think of a single case involving MJ where a child himself stepped for and it wasn't a child with his parents, with the latter doing most of the talking. With the case that got to trial, people said that when the kid finally took the stand, he was emotionless and didn't seem very invested in his testimony...almost as if he'd been coached by his parents and his attorney to say what he did. Color me surprised!

I don't think Jackson did it because he liked children too much to hurt them; he wanted to be their friends, not do bad things to them. However, it was still horrible judgement for these parents to leave their kids with the guy anyway, as he was a nutjob even if he wasn't a child abuser.
Ekim, did you look at the list of items found in MJ's bedroom, and in the estate itself? Doesn't it strike you as even slightly suspicious that the testimony given by the boys indicates that they viewed porn with MJ, both online and in magazines, and that evidence of those specific types of magazines/sites were found in the bedroom and in the computer browser? Had they not found the booze, the pills, the underwear (as the boy described), the porn (which included photos of nude boys ... though it was apparently categorized as 'art' -- seen here; make up your own mind) ... I'd be more inclined to summarily dismiss it as gold-digging. That they found this much stuff, in the place where MJ admitted having sleep-overs with various children, is ... troubling, to say the very least.
 

snuggletiger

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Farrah Fawcett dies and goes to heaven where she is met by St. Peter at the pearly gates. Looking over his books, he sees that she is permitted entrance. "Now, we don't advertise this, but when you come in, and you are worthy, you are granted one wish."



So Farrah thinks and thinks. "What I want most is to help the worlds children. So I wish the children of earth were all safe."



Bang, Michael Jackson dies.


:doh:
And in the words of Papa Joe at the BET Red Carpet:
Right Right, Everybody's fine. Right Right.
 
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