well i found a church of ass holes

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jack

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I protest our soldiers dying. Not because of the gays, though.

They do have every right to do what they're doing. I support their exercise in first amendment rights.

I totally protest soldiers dying, though. I'm not going to go around to people whose family has died and tell them off. But we shouldn't be sending any more kids over there to die. It's wrong to encourage a country to go to war, and it's wrong to encourage civilians to join the armed forces.
 

1300 Class

Pam Poovey's Stunt Double
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Sorry, did it occur that if you joined the army there was a *tiny possibility* that you may be called on to serve in a war zone or actually do some fighting?
civilians to join the armed forces
Where do you think they draw recruits from? The general population.
 
J

JerseyBigBoy

gangstadawg said:
they somewhat dont have a right. a funeral is supposed to be some what private.
Yes! They should be protesting at the local recruiter's office if that's their beef. Protesting and chanting at a funeral while the parents and families grieve is cowardly, cold and UN-Christian. They do have the right to protest and I hope one day someone else will have the right to make their lives miserable--you know, as a sign of protest.
 

BBW Betty

Made My Saving Throw
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JerseyBigBoy said:
Yes! They should be protesting at the local recruiter's office if that's their beef. Protesting and chanting at a funeral while the parents and families grieve is cowardly, cold and UN-Christian.
Perfect! Anyone who would use a family's grief to further a hateful political agenda is no "man of God."
 

Wayne_Zitkus

Proud FA Since 1962
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JerseyBigBoy said:
Yes! They should be protesting at the local recruiter's office if that's their beef. Protesting and chanting at a funeral while the parents and families grieve is cowardly, cold and UN-Christian. They do have the right to protest and I hope one day someone else will have the right to make their lives miserable--you know, as a sign of protest.
Someone on another board I post to said that he plans to protest at Fred Phelps' funeral when he dies - you know, to give the Westboro Baptist crowd a taste of their own medicine....
 
J

JerseyBigBoy

Wayne_Zitkus said:
Someone on another board I post to said that he plans to protest at Fred Phelps' funeral when he dies - you know, to give the Westboro Baptist crowd a taste of their own medicine....
Amen, Brother!
 

StoneFemme

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Australian Lord said:
Where do you think they draw recruits from? The general population.

Wrong. They actively and aggressively recruit in the poorest, most economically depressed, and racially "colorful" neighborhoods.

They take advantage of people who are oppressed and tell them that the armed forces are their only chance at a college education or a decent non-welfare life.. oh yeah except you might get blown up fighing an oil war *oops*.
 

1300 Class

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There is a difference between "recruitment" and "conscription". And its not that they are forcing people to sign up to serve in the military. Joining the armed forces, might actually entale fighting overseas, and the possibility of entering a war zone, regardless of the cause or war.
 

StoneFemme

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Australian Lord said:
There is a difference between "recruitment" and "conscription". And its not that they are forcing people to sign up to serve in the military. Joining the armed forces, might actually entale fighting overseas, and the possibility of entering a war zone, regardless of the cause or war.

It is a sign of a privledged life to not see that many of these aggressively recruited youth have very few options available to them (because education funding has been slashed to bits to fund this war, the economy sucks, and huge numbers of people are unemployed or underemployed). I have no wish to get into this with you beyond stating that it must be nice to live a priviledged life where you don't have to be faced with the choices many of these young people do. Conscription, no, not technically. Welfare or War... hrm not much of a choice there for someone trying to keep their pride and self-respect, or feed their family, now is it?
 

SoDelicate

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I don't buy it for a moment, that the soldiers from our countries are over there
because they were misled into believing, it's the only way they will have a chance at a decent life, or that the average soldier over there came from an oppressed america, or for that matter...that we sent our children over there to war.

Those that are over there, are there because they chose to be there, they chose the army, and each had their own reasons.
Some may have been to escape a not great life here, and they wanted something better for themselves, some wanted to fight for their country,
Some wanted the challenge, and yes, even adventure that it would bring.
Regardless, there's not one who did not CHOOSE to go.

And I am quite certian all had the basic concept of the dangers of going before they went, I'm sure they've seen the pics, and video footage, all the same and more that we have. I highly doubt the army would send them in uneducated about what exactly they are going into.

Sure they are our sons, and daughters, BUT.. this was what they CHOSE to do. Along with that choice comes the risk that yes.. someday they may be asked to go overseas, into a warzone.
And when called to go, it's easy to point the fingers at the government, but remember this, the government did not make them join the army.
The government is only asking them to do the job the CHOSE to do.

Now regardless of my opinion on the actual war or the reasons the US is in there, I realize that the soldiers are there because it's what they decided they wanted to do with their life, at that time.
Not because they were forced into it, and I respect that.
and yes... I have a couple damn good friends in the army, one is over in Iraq now.
But I also know...he's doing what he wants to do, not because of the war itself, but the many other aspects of being a soldier, the humanitarian part of it.

again.. JMO...

SoDelicate
 

Jes

is oddly aroused
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I will say that being given a choice between 2 not-very-good options isn't much of a choice. BUT I take the point that yes, they did sign on the dotted line.

However, there are lots of odd things going on with recruiters, now. Did you know that you can get a different deal then the person next to you? I mean, if you don't know to ask for a special perk, it won't be offered to you? That sometimes, you're told you won't have to do certain things, can opt out of certain things (one kid was told by a recruiter that if he didn't want to, he wouldn't have to go to Iraq)? Does that change your feelings about how much these signers-on knew? Perhaps it doesn't for you, but it doesn't make me proud to be an American.
 

SoDelicate

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Not really, it's no different than any other contract signed, the more you know about the contract, and what you're getting into, the better deal you can make for yourself.

If you're going to choose something as a career for 5, 10, 15 years...
And decide to jump in without research, or talking to people currently
involved in that career, then you're going to have a learning curve that
others who did research or talked to people involved might not have,
as they already know what you can and can't do.

The bottom line is, they signed the dotted line, and are expected to perform
as any other job would entail, regardless of perks.
And most go with the knowledge, and acceptance they will most likely be called to go somewhere, sometime, to fight in a war.

And no one held a gun to their head to make them sign the dotted line...

P.S I'm not American :D
 

gooddad

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I have been a lurker here for a couple of weeks getting a feel for the whole community, waiting for an opportunity to get involved where I didn't feel like I would be intruding rather than contributing and I think I've gotten it. As a Marine (active 1982-1988, once a marine always a Marine) I think I can bring a personal perspective to the whole discussion.

I joined the military because I didn't have a plan for my life at the young age of 19, didn't have the money for college, parents were divorced dad gone and mom couldn't help, and I didn't want to flip burgers for life (no offense to those that do). Anyway I joined with full knowledge of what I was doing and what might happen and it did albeit it was Granada. But many, many young men and women joined because they didn't have a way out except the military. I knew many recruits whose only choice was a street life or the military. Now I'm not saying it's conscription but in some cases it comes close.

As far as being a "choice" of going to Iraq, that's not true, you can certainly volunteer to go there but most are assigned a tour of duty and their is no decision to be made by the assignee, you can't say "Oh I don't think I want to go" and get away with it. Most of the soldiers, Marines and airmnen that are in Iraq right now were in the service when the war started. Recruiting has been way down since the ware started and recruiters are offering many perks to get people to join, and some are even, dare I say it, "LYING" to potential recruits to get them to sign on the bottom line.

Anyway, I do believe that we should serve our country, that is the price of freedeom but I also believe that when you send young men and women to war it should be for a noble, moral and ethical cause, which I do not think Iraq is. Their is so much money and politics invloved I'm not sure we will ever know what the real reason is. Their were no WMD's, the people there did not and still are not welcoming us, yes Sadam was a bad man, but if we had to go in we should have had a better plan of what we were going to do once we were there.

We are now mired in a mess and our people are getting killed almost everyday and thousands upon thousands of civilians are dying because of our presence, not despite it.

Now about the Gay Haters Church, I'm not really sure you can call it a Christian organization because Christ taught love for everyone, he wanted us to treat our neighbors as God treats us, with love. These people are so far off base I don't think they merit the attention they are garnering. Unfortunatley the right to free speech doesn't come with common sense, and their parents apparently didn't instill that in these people when they should have.

Whew, hope I didn't overspend myself or offend anyone.
 
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Jane

Photo (c) Fatlane
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Actually, that was a great first post.

Personal perspective, well thought out.

Not everyone is suited for military service. One of the people closest in my heart was a full volunteer, had six months before he went in with his eyes wide open. He lasted 11 months before, due to mutual agreement, he left the service.

However, some service is beneficial to all. While not military, volunteer firefighters come to mind, teaching in low income areas, nursing in not for profit facilities. Each can give according to their resources and find a way that is suited to them.
 

SoDelicate

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I agree, great first post Gooddad :)

I don't usually bother to post my opinion of the Iraq war, and I won't now either, everyone's got an opinion, and there's no point in repeating them, over and over again.
But regardless of the war, or it's reasons...they chose to go...(and regardless of their personal reasons for going) know basically what the job entails.

Anyway, welcome to the boards :)
Have fun, I'm not even two weeks old, guess the only way to fit in, is to jump in eventually ;) lol
So far...no one bites :D

SoDelicate
 

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