Who is and isn't worthy of a hospital bed/medical care.

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FatBarbieDoll

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Sorry if this post is in the wrong place -- I didn't know where else to put it. This post also has nothing to do with the virus, as the person to whom I am referring made the video I am going to describe before it hit.

Anyway, I wanted to post about something that has been bugging me a bit and see what others think. There is a semi-popular fitness expert on YouTube I won't name who makes videos about obesity. In one particular video, he basically said that it's okay if you want to lie to yourself about being healthy if you're obese, save for the fact that you could potentially be taking a hospital bed away from someone who, say, just happens to be elderly.

He was saying -- or my interpretation of what he was saying -- was that people who cause their own health issues are not worthy of medical care and it's not fair they are taking up hospital beds when others, who got sick through no fault of their own, go without. If two people urgently needed the last hospital bed available and one was obese and the other not or the other fit and otherwise healthy or pretty much not at fault in his eyes, he'd let the obese one die if he was the decider.

He (and another semi-popular fitness expert I won't name) have a "no excuses" mentality and think it's pretty much inexcusable to be fat. If they ruled the world, they'd do their best to mandate people be as healthy as the can possibly be -- they said that obesity is bad for the economy.

Maybe most or all of what these guys say is true -- I certainly don't have a response to the "hospital bed" part of the first guy's argument.

Care to share your thoughts?
 
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op user

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A couple of random points: he is just a fitness expert not a physician with some medical ethics background so be his opinion is based on subjective not objective signs.

Why the obese and non obese individual ended up needing a bed. If the obese was (a currently popular issue) was attacked during the social upset what's fat had to do with his obesity and not be entitled in a bed.

Do they both pay regularly health contributions: if the obese person pays and the fit person doesn't the issue is solved. .
Final for now: are we sure that a fit person does not have a self-induced health issue like abused body?


Just to get the ball going - because I know how bad is not to have answers on a thread.
 

FatBarbieDoll

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A couple of random points: he is just a fitness expert not a physician with some medical ethics background so be his opinion is based on subjective not objective signs.

Why the obese and non obese individual ended up needing a bed. If the obese was (a currently popular issue) was attacked during the social upset what's fat had to do with his obesity and not be entitled in a bed.

Do they both pay regularly health contributions: if the obese person pays and the fit person doesn't the issue is solved. .
Final for now: are we sure that a fit person does not have a self-induced health issue like abused body?


Just to get the ball going - because I know how bad is not to have answers on a thread.

AFAIK, neither of them are doctors, but what they say -- much, at least -- seems to make sense. The first guy has said that the human body isn't meant to carry so much excess weight or fat. He didn't specify when that weight begins but I am guessing it's at least at the 250-pound mark, minimum. Now, height is important here too -- a 7-foot person at 250 pounds might be okay.


"Why the obese and non obese individual ended up needing a bed. If the obese was (a currently popular issue) was attacked during the social upset what's fat had to do with his obesity and not be entitled in a bed."

I think he means it for when they get ill, when they cause it themselves.

2. Have not heard either of them -- or anyone else in response to them -- address the "fat people pay taxes too" argument.

3. Yeah, what about fit people who abuse alcohol or hard drugs? Do they exist? If so, do they get a pass because they are otherwise healthy?


These guys pride themselves on "facts over feelings."
 
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DazzlingAnna

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I'd like to share some of my thoughts on this.

There are serious medical issues that occur on obese people but also on non-obese people. (speaking from experience by myself and family)
Who is going to judge over a person in those cases?

In my opinion medical services are made for everyone. And if a decision is made by weight about getting this treatment or not - this is discrimination.
In worst case with deadly consequences.

If a decision would be made on the obese/non-obese criteria I would start questioning other incidents that would require medical treatment.
No matter if someone is obese or not:
Why is it fair then to help someone to recover e.g. from a broken leg or worse because of free-climbing, skiing or whatever runs a risk for serious injuries? Or heavy drinking habbits or smoking?

To point out: I don't say that I would make those decisions or differences. Everybody should get help and care whenever needed.

***
off topic...
If I come across those videos, fat-shaming-comments on articles online or even people in real life I usually try to deal with them in a neutral way. (difficult sometimes)
But honestly I try to avoid those things and people. I cannot change those people's opinions - why should I waste my time.
The one thing that I dislike the most: The accusation I would lie to myself about being happy, healthy, living a good life as a highly obese person.
What made me unhappy for many, many years? Basicially people who were telling me that I am not ok how I am, how I look. (And they used worse than saying "not ok" to let me know.)

***

Anyway,
I have a problem with the connotation that generally speaking obese people would not be healthy, happy, and it would be their own fault and that's why they don't deserve medical treatment.
 

DragonFly

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My opinion straight up is that the people who devalue a life because that life is in a fat body, is a fat-phobic uneducated inhuman person. So the underweight, tanned person with 0%. Body fat gets skin cancer. From this guys attitude then it is the person’s fault. This kind of pseudo scientific presentation is why it is coming through YouTube!
 

FatBarbieDoll

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My opinion straight up is that the people who devalue a life because that life is in a fat body, is a fat-phobic uneducated inhuman person. So the underweight, tanned person with 0%. Body fat gets skin cancer. From this guys attitude then it is the person’s fault. This kind of pseudo scientific presentation is why it is coming through YouTube!

This man is proudly fatphobic -- not sure it means what he thinks it does...or maybe he does and does not care. He claims to use only logic to prove his points. Nearly all comments on both of these guys' videos are on their side. Some hurt, as a fat person trying to find love. Some people were saying that they'd never be with a fat woman because she'd be a bad example to any children they'd have. Others were saying you cannot be fat and beautiful because healthy bodies are beautiful -- not their exact wording but I am sure you get the message; they gave a scientific explanation.

Watching his and the other man's videos make me feel less worthy, like maybe I don't deserve medical care or someone who does take care of themselves should be chosen to be saved over me if a lack of hospital beds became a reality because, admittedly, I am not healthy -- I don't exercise and eat mostly junk food.

I could be misinterpreting what they say, so please forgive me if I am wrong. He claims that he he says are facts and often looks into the camera and says that you WILL die if you are obese, if not now then eventually.
 
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FatBarbieDoll

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My opinion straight up is that the people who devalue a life because that life is in a fat body, is a fat-phobic uneducated inhuman person. So the underweight, tanned person with 0%. Body fat gets skin cancer. From this guys attitude then it is the person’s fault. This kind of pseudo scientific presentation is why it is coming through YouTube!
They are all about personal responsibility.
 

DazzlingAnna

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This man is proudly fatphobic -- not sure it means what he thinks it does...or maybe he does and does not care. He claims to use only logic to prove his points. Nearly all comments on both of these guys' videos are on their side. Some hurt, as a fat person trying to find love. Some people were saying that they'd never be with a fat woman because she'd be a bad example to any children they'd have. Others were saying you cannot be fat and beautiful because healthy bodies are beautiful -- not their exact wording but I am sure you get the message; they gave a scientific explanation.

Watching his and the other man's videos make me feel less worthy, like maybe I don't deserve medical care or someone who does take care of themselves should be chosen to be saved over me if a lack of hospital beds became a reality because, admittedly, I am not healthy -- I don't exercise and eat mostly junk food.

I could be misinterpreting what they say, so please forgive me if I am wrong. He claims that he he says are facts and often looks into the camera and says that you WILL die if you are obese, if not now then eventually.
If it hurts your feelings, makes you feeling less worthy -
1st of all - you are not less worthy than any other person - no matter what shape, size, age, race,...

And claiming that he's telling facts is useless unless there are sources of qualified scientific researches. I bet there aren't any of those.

And another fact: everybody will die. If not now then eventually.

Don't get me wrong, living as an obese person I am convinced will shorten my life. I am aware that I won't reach a certain age as this seems to be common in my family. And being obese might be one of a the reasons. But also true: all of my 1st grade relatives that have passed away within the last years suffered from problems that could have hit everyone (cancer, sepsis, pulmonary embolism; the only thin person had dramatic diabetic problems)

@FatBarbieDoll : if this making you feel bad - don't watch or read those comments. Or only in small doses. That's my advice. :)
 
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Dr. Feelgood

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And claiming that he's telling facts is useless unless there are sources of qualified scientific researches. I bet there aren't any of those.
There's at least one. In the online archive of the Journal of the American Medical Association for January 2013, there's a study by Flegal et al. on mortality rates for people with different Body Mass Indexes. It's actually a meta-study, based on an analysis of over 700 studies on the subject, which involved over 2000 subjects. The results were that people classed as moderately obese (BMI 30-34) had the same mortality rate at those with an "ideal" BMI (18 1/2 -24). The "overweight" group, however (BMI 25=29), had a mortality rate that was 1/10th that of the other groups.
 

DazzlingAnna

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There's at least one. In the online archive of the Journal of the American Medical Association for January 2013, there's a study by Flegal et al. on mortality rates for people with different Body Mass Indexes. It's actually a meta-study, based on an analysis of over 700 studies on the subject, which involved over 2000 subjects. The results were that people classed as moderately obese (BMI 30-34) had the same mortality rate at those with an "ideal" BMI (18 1/2 -24). The "overweight" group, however (BMI 25=29), had a mortality rate that was 1/10th that of the other groups.
Of course there are studies about obesity that have results that it causes a higher risk for several medical issues.
But these pretentious reports I was referring to are usually not (or rarely) based on those researches.
 

op user

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Some more random thoughts:

These guys sell "fitness" hence they need to target a new market: if they make fat people feel bad about themselves they have a new customers.

For western democracies we have an agreement to offer to the people living in a country an acceptable level of services (education, civil protection, health etc) without any significant exceptions - not a always a good thing but we have it. If a modification on these policy is to be made we need to do based on a government decision based on solid scientific evidence - not on some you-tubers with limited education.

I am covered with most responses.

@Barbsjw @DazzlingAnna regarding people stating bad things for obese individuals: Thank them for their opinion and state openly you are going to ignore it.
 

op user

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@Barbsjw I was referring mainly to people making bad comments about obese individuals. Apologies it doesn't fit well.
 

Barbsjw

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Ah @op user thanks for explaining. I asked because I hadn't posted to the thread and wondered what you were referring to.
 

Joker

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Sorry if this post is in the wrong place -- I didn't know where else to put it. This post also has nothing to do with the virus, as the person to whom I am referring made the video I am going to describe before it hit.

Anyway, I wanted to post about something that has been bugging me a bit and see what others think. There is a semi-popular fitness expert on YouTube I won't name who makes videos about obesity. In one particular video, he basically said that it's okay if you want to lie to yourself about being healthy if you're obese, save for the fact that you could potentially be taking a hospital bed away from someone who, say, just happens to be elderly.

He was saying -- or my interpretation of what he was saying -- was that people who cause their own health issues are not worthy of medical care and it's not fair they are taking up hospital beds when others, who got sick through no fault of their own, go without. If two people urgently needed the last hospital bed available and one was obese and the other not or the other fit and otherwise healthy or pretty much not at fault in his eyes, he'd let the obese one die if he was the decider.

He (and another semi-popular fitness expert I won't name) have a "no excuses" mentality and think it's pretty much inexcusable to be fat. If they ruled the world, they'd do their best to mandate people be as healthy as the can possibly be -- they said that obesity is bad for the economy.

Maybe most or all of what these guys say is true -- I certainly don't have a response to the "hospital bed" part of the first guy's argument.

Care to share your thoughts?
I never saw any of that. I guess it is just that if you are not of his army then you need to be ready to join it. Other than that I gave my bed up once in a VA hospital for a guy who needed it more. I got another bed a few days later. In the meantime I was sleeping in the bed of a truck in the parking garage. All people need care. It is country to country how you get it.
 

Shotha

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I very much get the impression that in this thread people are searching for was of dealing with people, who think that fat people are less deserving than other people, in particular when it comes to medical care. We can deal with it through counter arguments and through managing our feelings about fatphobia.

I don't believe in obesity. I think that it is an ill-conceived idea. Some of us are fat and others thin, in varying degrees. The point at which fat people are deemed obese is arbitrarily set. Neither weight nor BMI give an accurate way of assessing how fat a person is. I have known several people with a BMI over 30, who are not obese. They are chunky because of the amount of muscle that they have. If a patient needs to lose weight, "obesity" is not a helpful term for the doctor to use, as it can make the patient panic, which only makes weight loss all the more difficult.

It is judgmental to say that a person's obesity is their own fault. It fails to take into account genetics, medical reasons and socio-economic factors. Some of us have a propensity towards weight gain for genetic reasons. Sometimes this runs in families or it can affect larger population groups in humans and other animals for historical reasons. Some of us tend to put on weight for medical reasons. I tend to put on weight because of a medication that I have to take. My doctor doesn't talk about my weight gain, because he doesn't want it to become an excuse for not taking the medication. Poverty tends to lead to weight gain partly because poor people can't afford lean meat and so tend to have to buy cheap meat products containing more fat. The way that these Youtubers fail to take such factors into account in their blanket condemnation of "obese people" shows that their motives are far removed from medicine. It shows up their fatphobia.

The medical, pharmaceutical, diet and fitness industries have a vested interest in persuading us that there are things wrong with us that we should pay them to fix. The use of highly emotive terms like "obese" and "overweight" are used to play upon our perceptions of ourselves, a further ploy to persuade us to buy their products and services.

It has been mentioned above in this thread that the outcome for obese patients in many circumstances is better than for more average patients. Fat people also tend to sustain less damage from falls than thin people do. We bounce better.

Apart from the medical aspects of this issue, there are also social issues associated with it. What about the "obese" mother or father? Should they just be left to die because of their shape and size? Should their children be orphaned because of their parents' shape or size? I think not.

These Youtubers do not have degrees in medicine. So, we should not listen to their opinions about us. We should not let their comments lower our self-esteem.
 

Sonic Purity

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They are all about personal responsibility.
So am i. For purposes of identification, i’m a Libertarian, which at times is a party which denotes itself as The Party of Personal Responsibility. And i’m an FA, and a believer in science (important: with no medical training). Here’s what i think….

There is a semi-popular fitness expert on YouTube I won't name who makes videos about obesity. […] He was saying -- or my interpretation of what he was saying -- was that people who cause their own health issues are not worthy of medical care and it's not fair they are taking up hospital beds when others, who got sick through no fault of their own, go without. […]
He [… has] a "no excuses" mentality and think it's pretty much inexcusable to be fat. If they ruled the world, they'd do their best to mandate people be as healthy as the can possibly be -- they said that obesity is bad for the economy.

Maybe most or all of what these guys say is true -- I certainly don't have a response to the "hospital bed" part of the first guy's argument.
Pfffft True?! They’re as biased and willfully ignorant as the most ardent over-the-top self-centered psychopathic extreme feedist (the classic Evil Feedist stereotype, 100% ignoring the humanity of the feedee “love interest”)!

Others here have already covered how out-of-control over-the-top inhumane those (il)logical facts beliefs are.

AFAIK, neither of them are doctors, but what they say -- much, at least -- seems to make sense.
They and all of us are human. No human is correct all the time. It is entirely possible to take the useful information from them and personally benefit from it without taking the bulls** and/or actual facts that are to you personally unhelpful.

This comes up for me all the time with the Life Extension Foundation, which is one of my main sources for health information and nutritional supplements. Their information and supplements have literally kept me alive and far healthier than i otherwise would have been. They’re also fat phobic, and can very likely outdo these fitness experts trotting out research paper after paper about how fat is medically awful in addition to “unsightly” (their preferred favorite word to toss out). They ignore the other equally-qualified scientific studies (which i see on NAAFA newsletters and posts on other sites in our fatlovesex community) where fatness is either neutral or positive, because those do not suit their world view.

The first guy has said that the human body isn't meant to carry so much excess weight or fat. He didn't specify when that weight begins but I am guessing it's at least at the 250-pound mark, minimum.
[…]
These guys pride themselves on "facts over feelings."
So do i. But if one’s deeply-buried feelings cause them to overlook scientific research and facts which happen to contradict their world view, are they truly walking the walk? Or are they deluding themselves into claiming the mantle of arrogant judgmental superiority?

Can’t find it right now, but i’ve been reading generation-old (±20 years) issues of Science News, “the newsmagazine of science”. One article discussed research around ancient human ancestor remains of a surprisingly (to the researchers) stocky build. It was fun watching the article’s author dance around using the word “fat”, but it basically amounted to some humanoid ancestors physically evolved to carry a lot of weight. Did they all die out? Or is it like the lie i was told growing up that Indians (as in: indigenous natives of what is now called North America) no longer existed.

Much more to write about science and research, below.

Everything @Shotha wrote. A few additional comments:
I don't believe in obesity. I think that it is an ill-conceived idea.
It’s the medicalization of fatness, for the purpose of turning a natural condition into a disease “needing a cure”! (as you basically wrote further below in your post)

Shotha said:
It is judgmental to say that a person's obesity is their own fault. It fails to take into account genetics, medical reasons and socio-economic factors.
Beyond judgmental, it’s factually inaccurate in many, many cases. Do these fitness experts even know about the intestinal microbiome, and how profoundly that affects what humans eat and how their bodies process it? Here’s one example:

Woman becomes obese after fecal transplant from overweight donor (UPI report) excerpt:
According to a new report published in the journal Open Forum Infectious Diseases, a woman who had always been of a healthy weight quickly became obese in the wake of a fecal transplant from an overweight donor.

Prior to the woman's 2011 fecal transplant, she weighed 136 pounds and registered a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 26. To treat ongoing CDI-related diarrhea problems, the woman received a fecal transplant from her overweight but healthy daughter, via colonoscopy. Sixteen months later and the woman was clinically obese, weighing 170 pounds with a BMI of 33. Her weight gain continued despite a medically supervised liquid protein diet and exercise regimen.
Shotha said:
It has been mentioned above in this thread that the outcome for obese patients in many circumstances is better than for more average patients. Fat people also tend to sustain less damage from falls than thin people do. We bounce better.
There’s even more, and i don’t have room for it in this post.

This man is proudly fatphobic -- not sure it means what he thinks it does...or maybe he does and does not care. He claims to use only logic to prove his points. Nearly all comments on both of these guys' videos are on their side. Some hurt, as a fat person trying to find love. Some people were saying that they'd never be with a fat woman because she'd be a bad example to any children they'd have. Others were saying you cannot be fat and beautiful because healthy bodies are beautiful -- not their exact wording but I am sure you get the message; they gave a scientific explanation.
Pffft! I fart in the face of their (selective) scientific explanation! Healthy bodies come in all sizes, shapes, consistencies, colors, and other attributes. So do unhealthy ones. Health and these other attributes are orthogonal.

Watching his and the other man's videos make me feel less worthy, like maybe I don't deserve medical care or someone who does take care of themselves should be chosen to be saved over me if a lack of hospital beds became a reality because, admittedly, I am not healthy -- I don't exercise and eat mostly junk food.

I could be misinterpreting what they say, so please forgive me if I am wrong. He claims that he he says are facts and often looks into the camera and says that you WILL die if you are obese, if not now then eventually.
@FatBarbieDoll: i applaud your fearless fact-finding truth seeking, with your rational mind open to confronting scientific reality. Here’s the thing: like me, these video peeps you’re watching are well outside their range of expertise. I’m biased too, but please let your ruthlessly honest rational mind contemplate the following:

We Don’t Know the true science behind fatness and illness yet

The science is being performed by fallible humans. Doing their best, true. Seeking truth with ruthless honesty, we hope. Still, there is the human tendency to most easily find that for which one is looking.

For nearly everyone reading this, when we were younger, Pluto was a planet. Now it’s not. New information was learned; new discoveries made. The facts where incontrovertible: The science changed.

When i was diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease in 1997, i was told by my doctor that there was no connection whatsoever between the intestinal cramping i was having and my emotional state—none, zero—even though my body and mind told me otherwise.

Fast forward several decades: it’s now readily admitted by all but the most conservative practitioners that there’s a strong gut-(head) brain connection, via the vagus nerve amongst possibly other pathways. Minds opened: the science changed (and my instincts and literal gut feelings were well ahead of the curve).

Trust your body, and all of your instincts and being—everyone, and especially OP @FatBarbieDoll. You are more of an expert on your own body than anyone else who has or will ever live. Science and medicine and facts (as we currently know them) are important; so are your own instincts, thoughts, and feelings.

I personally know from vast life-long direct experience that mental and physical health are inseparable. One of the major failings of the orthodox medical system in most “western” nations is treating mental and physical health as wholly disparate entities (or nearly so).

[Continues in the next post]
 

Sonic Purity

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Take the good things (if any) from those videos in terms of exercise or whatever else they’re doing that first drew you there and resonates with your mind, body, and spirit. Totally ignore the rest.

You were Born Worthy of love of every kind, total respect, civility, and full medical care. You Remain Worthy of all these things no matter what you are or are not eating and/or doing or not doing for exercise. (Scarcity and paying for things are in the realm of economics: a separate subject.)

Look at yourself in the mirror, please. Full body is preferred, but do what you easily can. Especially @FatBarbieDoll, but truly anyone carrying significant weight (from fat, muscle, bone, and/or anything else—any weight), especially any of you struggling with even vestiges of big body shame. Do you see the athlete looking back at you? The extreme athlete, if you’re supersized?

The fact that you made it to a mirror means that you’re mobile, even if you made it there slowly, possibly out of breath, maybe in some pain. If you’re moving, physics tells us that you’re doing work—the physical definition of work. You are a weight lifter. Unlike those wimpy jocks at the gym who work out for awhile then set their weights down, some of whom go parade around and show off their muscular physique, because you’re such an awesome extreme athlete, you carry your weight(s) around 24/7/365 (and change). Is it your fault that your attached weight(s) happen to simultaneously be so sensual and sexy, in addition to the source of your athleticism? I think not!

Next time you feel shame or sad or depressed that you’re not exercising anywhere near as much as the experts claim everyone must, do the math. Chances are excellent that you are exercising at least as much: carrying far more weight over a shorter distance, for the same mathematical amount of physical work!

You don’t have to be as arrogant as the show-off weight lifters who frequent gyms (though it’s still a free enough world that you can if you want). Consider existing in pride and self-respect for who and what you are, whether you’re currently in motion or currently sitting comfortably enjoying something that makes these fitness folks’ faces melt (and do enjoy it!), or whatever else you may be doing.

Applauding you all, you amazing athletes!
 

FatBarbieDoll

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So am i. For purposes of identification, i’m a Libertarian, which at times is a party which denotes itself as The Party of Personal Responsibility. And i’m an FA, and a believer in science (important: with no medical training). Here’s what i think….



Pfffft True?! They’re as biased and willfully ignorant as the most ardent over-the-top self-centered psychopathic extreme feedist (the classic Evil Feedist stereotype, 100% ignoring the humanity of the feedee “love interest”)!

Others here have already covered how out-of-control over-the-top inhumane those (il)logical facts beliefs are.



They and all of us are human. No human is correct all the time. It is entirely possible to take the useful information from them and personally benefit from it without taking the bulls** and/or actual facts that are to you personally unhelpful.

This comes up for me all the time with the Life Extension Foundation, which is one of my main sources for health information and nutritional supplements. Their information and supplements have literally kept me alive and far healthier than i otherwise would have been. They’re also fat phobic, and can very likely outdo these fitness experts trotting out research paper after paper about how fat is medically awful in addition to “unsightly” (their preferred favorite word to toss out). They ignore the other equally-qualified scientific studies (which i see on NAAFA newsletters and posts on other sites in our fatlovesex community) where fatness is either neutral or positive, because those do not suit their world view.



So do i. But if one’s deeply-buried feelings cause them to overlook scientific research and facts which happen to contradict their world view, are they truly walking the walk? Or are they deluding themselves into claiming the mantle of arrogant judgmental superiority?

Can’t find it right now, but i’ve been reading generation-old (±20 years) issues of Science News, “the newsmagazine of science”. One article discussed research around ancient human ancestor remains of a surprisingly (to the researchers) stocky build. It was fun watching the article’s author dance around using the word “fat”, but it basically amounted to some humanoid ancestors physically evolved to carry a lot of weight. Did they all die out? Or is it like the lie i was told growing up that Indians (as in: indigenous natives of what is now called North America) no longer existed.

Much more to write about science and research, below.

Everything @Shotha wrote. A few additional comments:


It’s the medicalization of fatness, for the purpose of turning a natural condition into a disease “needing a cure”! (as you basically wrote further below in your post)



Beyond judgmental, it’s factually inaccurate in many, many cases. Do these fitness experts even know about the intestinal microbiome, and how profoundly that affects what humans eat and how their bodies process it? Here’s one example:

Woman becomes obese after fecal transplant from overweight donor (UPI report) excerpt:




There’s even more, and i don’t have room for it in this post.



Pffft! I fart in the face of their (selective) scientific explanation! Healthy bodies come in all sizes, shapes, consistencies, colors, and other attributes. So do unhealthy ones. Health and these other attributes are orthogonal.



@FatBarbieDoll: i applaud your fearless fact-finding truth seeking, with your rational mind open to confronting scientific reality. Here’s the thing: like me, these video peeps you’re watching are well outside their range of expertise. I’m biased too, but please let your ruthlessly honest rational mind contemplate the following:

We Don’t Know the true science behind fatness and illness yet

The science is being performed by fallible humans. Doing their best, true. Seeking truth with ruthless honesty, we hope. Still, there is the human tendency to most easily find that for which one is looking.

For nearly everyone reading this, when we were younger, Pluto was a planet. Now it’s not. New information was learned; new discoveries made. The facts where incontrovertible: The science changed.

When i was diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease in 1997, i was told by my doctor that there was no connection whatsoever between the intestinal cramping i was having and my emotional state—none, zero—even though my body and mind told me otherwise.

Fast forward several decades: it’s now readily admitted by all but the most conservative practitioners that there’s a strong gut-(head) brain connection, via the vagus nerve amongst possibly other pathways. Minds opened: the science changed (and my instincts and literal gut feelings were well ahead of the curve).

Trust your body, and all of your instincts and being—everyone, and especially OP @FatBarbieDoll. You are more of an expert on your own body than anyone else who has or will ever live. Science and medicine and facts (as we currently know them) are important; so are your own instincts, thoughts, and feelings.

I personally know from vast life-long direct experience that mental and physical health are inseparable. One of the major failings of the orthodox medical system in most “western” nations is treating mental and physical health as wholly disparate entities (or nearly so).

[Continues in the next post]


Thank you for taking the time to type out such a response. I will try my best to respond. I do believe in obesity myself, unlike Shotha -- there is no way someone can be, say, 600 pounds and healthy, right? Why do other countries have so few fat people?

I have seen people 500+ plus and they can barely walk, if at all. Their limbs are discolored and even basic tasks are an ordeal.

I recall one woman saying that washing her hair tired her out, as it was too much to keep her arms up to complete the task.

One thing these guys say that I will agree with is -- or is hard to not believe -- is that the human body isn't meant to carry so much excess weight or fat. I don't recall them saying what amount, exactly, but I am guessing that starts from over 200 pounds. It surely must wear on the joints.

I wish I knew what "a lot of weight" was for those ancestors. How could they have been obese anyway? Wouldn't they have had to travel for food and go without often? I look at videos of the modern day isolated tribes and no one in their groups are obese.

These guys claim that people/Americans have no clue about proper nutrition. One admits that diets don't work but seems to think he as the solution. IDK. I am trying to be as accurate as possible here because I only care about the truth.
 

FatBarbieDoll

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Take the good things (if any) from those videos in terms of exercise or whatever else they’re doing that first drew you there and resonates with your mind, body, and spirit. Totally ignore the rest.

You were Born Worthy of love of every kind, total respect, civility, and full medical care. You Remain Worthy of all these things no matter what you are or are not eating and/or doing or not doing for exercise. (Scarcity and paying for things are in the realm of economics: a separate subject.)

Look at yourself in the mirror, please. Full body is preferred, but do what you easily can. Especially @FatBarbieDoll, but truly anyone carrying significant weight (from fat, muscle, bone, and/or anything else—any weight), especially any of you struggling with even vestiges of big body shame. Do you see the athlete looking back at you? The extreme athlete, if you’re supersized?

The fact that you made it to a mirror means that you’re mobile, even if you made it there slowly, possibly out of breath, maybe in some pain. If you’re moving, physics tells us that you’re doing work—the physical definition of work. You are a weight lifter. Unlike those wimpy jocks at the gym who work out for awhile then set their weights down, some of whom go parade around and show off their muscular physique, because you’re such an awesome extreme athlete, you carry your weight(s) around 24/7/365 (and change). Is it your fault that your attached weight(s) happen to simultaneously be so sensual and sexy, in addition to the source of your athleticism? I think not!

Next time you feel shame or sad or depressed that you’re not exercising anywhere near as much as the experts claim everyone must, do the math. Chances are excellent that you are exercising at least as much: carrying far more weight over a shorter distance, for the same mathematical amount of physical work!

You don’t have to be as arrogant as the show-off weight lifters who frequent gyms (though it’s still a free enough world that you can if you want). Consider existing in pride and self-respect for who and what you are, whether you’re currently in motion or currently sitting comfortably enjoying something that makes these fitness folks’ faces melt (and do enjoy it!), or whatever else you may be doing.

Applauding you all, you amazing athletes!

One guy says that he has trained many obese people and they "just can't move." To be fair and honest, though, I really don't exercise. It's minimal at best -- going up and down the stairs maybe 2-4 times a day and to and from the car, living room and kitchen. LOL!
 
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