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Shotha

DM Supporter
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
907
Location
New Zealand
It's really not that easy though. I agree that the stigma is harsher on fat women, but I don't think that translates to the experience of dating fat men being less judged than dating fat women. I'm a bisexual FFA who has dated both, and people have been way less surprised/more positive when I've dated a fat women. The reaction was very neutral, like no one really thought anything of it from a weight standpoint. Whereas when I've dated a fat man, people have been very confused as if I was downgrading and embarrassing myself somehow.

I think it also depends on the kind of social circle you're in. If you're in more of a 'woke' liberal circle, fat women tend to be perceived much more positively than fat men are.
Thank you, @magodamilion2. I was hoping that there would be some discussion about this, as it's a complicated issue. As I'm gay and only date fat men, I have to listen to what other people say about this. I wonder, if some of the difference in our experience might be because we live in different countries. I've lived in the UK and in New Zealand, where I currently reside.

We agree that there is more stigma against fat women than against fat men. We perceive the reaction to dating fat men and fat women differently. I wonder how much of that difference is because we live in different countries. The sort of reaction that I see towards fat men dating conventionally attractive women is that they don't deserve an attractive woman. "She should be mine." The reaction to a conventionally attractive guy dating a fat woman can be quite vitriolic. New Zealand tends to lag behind America with fashions, attitudes and social trends. I wonder, if this accounts for the differences that are observed.

I agree that what we observe depends on the social circle that we move in. I'm an active member of the New Zealand Labour Party, which is proud of its stance on equality for all. Discrimination against fat women and against fat men is utter anathema to them. Less political liberal circles here probably do treat fat women better than fat men. The worst fat hatred that I see is in our little gay club, which is dominated quite by chance by fat men. They hate themselves for being fat and they hate me for liking being fat and for dating fat guys. But that is a different can of worms.
 

Tad

Dimensions' loiterer
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
13,234
Location
The great white north, eh?
It's really not that easy though. I agree that the stigma is harsher on fat women, but I don't think that translates to the experience of dating fat men being less judged than dating fat women. I'm a bisexual FFA who has dated both, and people have been way less surprised/more positive when I've dated a fat women. The reaction was very neutral, like no one really thought anything of it from a weight standpoint. Whereas when I've dated a fat man, people have been very confused as if I was downgrading and embarrassing myself somehow.

I think it also depends on the kind of social circle you're in. If you're in more of a 'woke' liberal circle, fat women tend to be perceived much more positively than fat men are.
Thank you, @magodamilion2. I was hoping that there would be some discussion about this, as it's a complicated issue. As I'm gay and only date fat men, I have to listen to what other people say about this. I wonder, if some of the difference in our experience might be because we live in different countries. I've lived in the UK and in New Zealand, where I currently reside.

We agree that there is more stigma against fat women than against fat men. We perceive the reaction to dating fat men and fat women differently. I wonder how much of that difference is because we live in different countries. The sort of reaction that I see towards fat men dating conventionally attractive women is that they don't deserve an attractive woman. "She should be mine." The reaction to a conventionally attractive guy dating a fat woman can be quite vitriolic. New Zealand tends to lag behind America with fashions, attitudes and social trends. I wonder, if this accounts for the differences that are observed.

I agree that what we observe depends on the social circle that we move in. I'm an active member of the New Zealand Labour Party, which is proud of its stance on equality for all. Discrimination against fat women and against fat men is utter anathema to them. Less political liberal circles here probably do treat fat women better than fat men. The worst fat hatred that I see is in our little gay club, which is dominated quite by chance by fat men. They hate themselves for being fat and they hate me for liking being fat and for dating fat guys. But that is a different can of worms.
Some rambling philosophizing while I listen in to a conference call:
I like the story here: The Rabbi Is In: Two Men Come Down The Same Chimney | ALEPH. All the different ways of answering “Two men come down a chimney. One comes out with a clean face, the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face?” reminds me that we come up with answers, but there are always other ways of looking at things.

If Magdamilion sees less negative feedback when dating fat women than fat me, you could argue that means:
- fat women face less negative attitudes
- no matter the general attitudes, there are less negative attitudes about fat women dating than about fat men dating
- that people don't feel the same way about lesbians being fat as they do about straight women
- that people don't feel the same way about a fat woman dating another woman as about her dating a man
- that people don't feel comfortable in expressing opinions about a woman dating a fat woman, for fear that it will seem like they are disproving of two women dating
- that the people who would disprove of a thin woman dating a fat woman more strongly disprove of two women dating, so that is the dominant criticism
- that when dating another woman Magdamilion might move through different circles, or simply get notices by different people, than when dating a fat man
- and on and on

Shotha gives another good example, is the hostility he sees in his local gay club representative of what he would see in the gay community at large, or just a particular local vibe, or ?

We all have our experiences, and of course we come up with explanations for them, but some other reasonable person might take those same experiences and come up with different explanations.
/philosophizing

What I will observe is that one thing I see in same-sex relationships(middle-class, middle-age, mostly college educated milieu) is that:
- Women get criticized, in essence, for not properly managing their man to keep his weight at an acceptable level.
- Men get criticized more for not valuing themselves enough, because otherwise they would not tolerate a fat woman as a partner.
 

Shotha

DM Supporter
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
907
Location
New Zealand
What I will observe is that one thing I see in same-sex relationships(middle-class, middle-age, mostly college educated milieu) is that:
- Women get criticized, in essence, for not properly managing their man to keep his weight at an acceptable level.
- Men get criticized more for not valuing themselves enough, because otherwise they would not tolerate a fat woman as a partner.
???

I think that you have brought up some very valid points, remembering that @magodamilion2 and myself have suggested a number of reasons as to why our experiences of this are different.

You suggest that a bisexual woman might not take male partners and female partners to mix in the same social circles. I find this persuasive, as for most of my life but not now, if I were bi I would not have taken both of them into the same social circles.

I also think that there can be a big difference between what people will say to your face and what they will only say behind your back. When I was 4 years old, I like fat people and had decided that I was going to be one of them. I noticed that people in our circle of friends referred to a man, whom I knew as Uncle Roy, as Fatty. One Sunday morning Uncle Roy arrived at our house and let himself in through the back door. I was so delighted to see him that I yelled, "'Ey up, dad, Fatty's 'ere!" Uncle Roy was upset and angry and suggested that my dad should slap my ear. As a 4 year old I had failed to observe that our friends never called Uncle Roy Fatty to his face.

In the gay community in New Zealand I would be shunned by most people. What is puzzling is that I should be shunned by a little group of fat gay men.

The lesbians in my circle of friends are not so bothered about staying slim as other women seem to be. I wonder if other people might think that it doesn't matter so much for a lesbian to be fat.
 

Ffancy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
68
Location
In a salt fog
What I will observe is that one thing I see in same-sex relationships(middle-class, middle-age, mostly college educated milieu) is that:
- Women get criticized, in essence, for not properly managing their man to keep his weight at an acceptable level.
- Men get criticized more for not valuing themselves enough, because otherwise they would not tolerate a fat woman as a partner.
You said same-sex relationships, although I think you meant opposite-sex relationships here...
 

ODFFA

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
1,477
Location
Cape Town, South Africa
Throwing my two cents into the gender topic, I can see the truth of all experiences expressed here. Women are widely societally defined by their looks, so there can be a very particular type of denigration a fat woman may face, which is qualitatively different to the flack men get for their weight.

But, men do get plenty flack -- plenty -- and because society is so looks-focused with women, some may underestimate the shit BHMs go through. If you're a man who dates women and you're not expected to have an "attractive" feminine partner, or people fail to disguise their bafflement when you do have such a partner -- when the representation of fat guys you see in the media are confined to the comic relief guy who only ever "gets the girl" on account of his (excessively) jovial personality, if at all -- that kind of stuff weighs down on one's self-esteem. It may seem subtle to those of us not in their shoes, but if you think about it, it's really not that psychologically benign.

And getting back to the OG topic:
I've had very fun, positive experiences confessing my preferences to friends and family. My girlfriends and my mom will often alert me to a "handsome teddy bear" walking by when we're out and about. (It doesn't sound quite as cute in English as it does in Afrikaans :p )

Sometimes my mom would say to me "You're still going to end up with a tiny little stick bug of a man, you'll see," just because I was still so young and she didn't quite get how hardwired this preference of mine is. One day, she said, "You do know not all big guys are good people, right?" To which I responded with, "Of course I know that. That's not why I like bigger guys. It's a physical attraction. I've never found myself attracted to a thin or muscular guy -- not once." That was the day she really came to understand my attraction and, even though she'd always been great about it, she's been even more brilliant about it ever since. We gab and do the typical girl-talk thing, and it's awesome to feel like I equally get to partake in that kind of banter.
 
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Tad

Dimensions' loiterer
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
13,234
Location
The great white north, eh?
I was left confused by that. I flagged it but did not flag a correction.
Unfortunately by the time it was Ffancy made it obvious to me what I'd actually written (instead of what I thought I'd written), it was too late to edit it, so each person who reads through the thread will go through the same confusion o_O
 

Shotha

DM Supporter
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
907
Location
New Zealand
Unfortunately by the time it was Ffancy made it obvious to me what I'd actually written (instead of what I thought I'd written), it was too late to edit it, so each person who reads through the thread will go through the same confusion o_O
I make stuff-ups too. My usual pitfall is to write a post, usually a quite long one, thinking that I have an hour or more to check that I have one or two facts right. And then someone shows up an hour early to take me somewhere and I've ended up hitting the SEND button, knowing that I haven't done my research properly.

I now know that I can just leave the text as it is and the Dimensions software will save it for me to finish and post later. That's a wonderful software feature.
 
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