Discussion: Feeders/Feedees and emotions/mentality

Discussion in 'Weight Board' started by AnnMarie, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. Apr 13, 2007 #1

    AnnMarie

    AnnMarie

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    Okay, a thread recently brought up this issue - whether real, perceived, the degrees of which, etc... and it seems something that others would like to participate in further.

    So, here are the ground rules - stick to them or your post will be removed:

    • This isn't about other posters of past/present - just about the topic as a whole and the views of observers/participants.
    • Feel free to add your observations, assumptions, or personal experiences.
    • Absolutely NO personal attacks, this is for discussion/debate.
    • No pictures of anyone other than yourself.

    I think this can be an interesting and enlightening conversation about how people view this, and how those who participate on either side view it. Let's use this as a learning and growing experience, and NOT as a battleground.
     
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  2. Apr 13, 2007 #2

    TheSadeianLinguist

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    So this isn't where I reveal you've skipped shaving your legs for a week? ;)

    I think it's an interesting topic. I think there's a difference between getting off on perceived immobility and feeding someone, and getting off on the idea of being bedbound/having your partner bedbound, or, at least, following through with it.

    Ultimately, if someone follows through with a plan of immobility, they lose so much: An ability to hold a fulltime job, to socialize in public, etc. Even if they don't want that, they lose the most basic choices and components of adulthood: When to use the bathroom, when to shower, etc. They are literally as dependent as infants with the minds of adults. To permanently desire that is a red flag to me there's something wrong with someone who wants that.

    I think it's unusual, but there's nothing spectacular to me, if a guy and his girlfriend say, "Yeah, she's 300 lbs. and I wanna see her pack on another 200! If they do it in a safe/sane way, cool. If they KNOW there are risks and don't expect it to be all sunshine and miracles, fine. There are risks to alternative lifestyles, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily horrible decisions if they improve quality of life. As long as a feedee is capable of self-care, I'm fine with it.

    I think Dims has certainly changed my perspective on feederism and where I stand on it. I think had you asked me three years ago, if a woman was actively trying to gain 200 lbs. with the help of her boyfriend and she had high blood pressure as she gained more, I would have said she should have her head checked. At this point, I'm pretty fine with people doing whatever with their bodies as long as they're capable of making their own decisions. A 1000 lb. person who cannot move no longer really has control over any decision, and that can't be allowed to go on.
     
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  3. Apr 13, 2007 #3

    AnnMarie

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    Any of those things, but there are people who felt they didn't get to fully express their feelings in the closed thread, so this is a place they can start.

    If you just want to wait and see what/if they say anything, that's cool too. :)
     
  4. Apr 13, 2007 #4

    catpass

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    It's a good point because we have to treat people with respect to make sure they will feel confident about their experiences.
     
  5. Apr 13, 2007 #5

    AnnMarie

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    I think those are good thoughts, Casey. Also, the line I quoted above... there is definitely a difference, too, between desiring that in your head, and executing that lifestyle. I think there are many who enjoy the "idea" of it, maybe in a way that a hard core submissive likes the "idea" of living bound in a cage... but it doesn't mean it's practical or healthy to actually live that way and in their head it will stay.
     
  6. Apr 13, 2007 #6

    imfree

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    I am an FA. I love being fat and gaining, myself. I would love to
    see a woman gain for me. I would not advise anyone to go higher than my
    own level of obesity. I'm 51 years old, weigh 415 at 5'8" tall, and I'm at my
    body's limit. I'm diabetic and on oxygen. I manage my conditions properly
    and enjoy great health for a person in my condition. I have limitations, but
    I'm OK with them. I no longer desire to gain a lot of weight.
    By using the infamous BMI formulas, I have determined that a
    woman 5'3" tall at 330lbs or a woman 5'6" tall at about 390lbs would be as
    obese as me. I don't desire a woman to gain beyond those limits for me
    and I'm attracted to women who aren't quite that heavy, as well. I'd be
    comfortable with a heavier woman, only if she was comfortable being that
    heavy.
    I am still mobile, but very much feel the effect of my weight when
    I'm on my feet. I now know what supersize fells like from the inside and
    can appreciate the really big girls go through. I use bathing and hygeine
    aids.
    I'm happy where I am and I'd never want a woman to get any
    nearer to immobility than I am. Enough is enough.
     
  7. Apr 13, 2007 #7

    bigplaidpants

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    I'm still unpacking boxes from our move.....so, I cannot give a thorough response. I skimmed parts of the closed thread. I want to simply throw out these ideas. It's all concepts at this point and will be too abstract to be interesting for some. But, they are kind of my framework on thinking about this subject.

    I've found as a FA there is an ongoing tension between fantasy and reality. I also believe that the harmony between these two sides isn't fixed. It moves around for each person, each relationship, and each situation. In the realm of feeding/gaining, I would more specifically define this tension as being between wanting more and having enough.

    I don't think this tension between fantasy and reality is unique to FA'ism. Nor do I think the constant struggle between wanting more and having enough is unique to feederism. I think the struggle between wants and reality comes with anyone living in touch with your erotic world. Eroticism seems to live on fantasies, desires that come in proportions that are larger-than-life (excuse the pun), and excesses on all sides. Just fish the internet: partners who have endless reseviors of romance or self-confidence; desires for gigantic breasts; fantasy partners that "want you so bad" or can have virtually endless orgasism. In short, to be in touch with your erotic desires is to live with "wanting more" in some form or another. But, when it comes to the reality of feeding, gaining, health, and emotional well-being - erotic desires, like all excessive wants, must in the end come down to earth and deal with the concrete aspects of life. For anyone whose read my posts before, you'll recognize me saying again...I believe real life shrivels without erotic desires. Likewise, eroticism is pretty empty without some aspects of reality. But, in the end, the preponderance of our life, energies, and concern must side with reality. I can live with always "wanting more" (think literally about feeding here), but always actually getting it can be dangerous. Mental and emotional well-being, not to mention physical, comes with realizing this kind of stewardship. This is where I really respect imfree's statement. "Enough is enough." He senses his body's limits. In my experience, knowledge of those limits is usually hard won.

    I could say about how this personally affects me as a FA who would love to see others fat or fatten up myself, but I don't have time here. Not to mention, I want to be sensitive to how a personal treatise would bore all onlookers.

    ....gotta get back to boxes......looking forward to reading more.
     
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  8. Apr 13, 2007 #8

    ClashCityRocker

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    good topic...

    i feel that, with the mentalities of most of my peers, or even people in general these days, feeding will, at least for a while, remain just a fantasy. that's fine, considering that it's potentially very dangerous and it's really not what everyone wants. it just seems as if people are open-minded to an extent, but when it comes to something like the idea of being fat, or even simply talking about it, they turn mighty narrow-minded. it's funny...you'd think that a generation of so-called "free thinkers" wouldn't so readily accept all the garbage they were fed from TV or where ever the hell people get their (mis)information.

    i've brought up the concept of WG to a few friends of mine, with ONE exception, i was reminded numerous times about how "weird" it was and things like that. everyone who knows me knows that im an FA, although if i said the term to them they'd be lost. i'm FEROCIOUS when it comes to defending a BBW that my more ignorant "friends" see in public...well, maybe i'm just ferocious. seeing how people react to someone who IS fat, i'd rather not complicate matters by bringing up the idea of weight-gain...until i met someone adult enough to appreciate it...or at very least, LISTEN.
     
  9. Apr 13, 2007 #9

    Tina

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    Here hear, AM. That is exactly the point I was making in the other thread that was so consistenly (and frustratingly) misunderstood, twisted and misrepresented (sometimes purposely, I wondered). Fantasy is just that. Feeding that is fun and not destructive is just that -- fun. Feeding that is harmful in that it is so extreme -- and not just the interest in going that far, but actual activity with the goal of immobility in mind -- that it threatens health and ends mobility. I think that kind of behavior is the sign of someone who has some problems. Disliking that aspect of does not mean I condemn all feeders, feedees, or people who just like foodplay. Sheesh.
     
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  10. Apr 13, 2007 #10

    imfree

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    Thanks, BBP, that did my heart at least a 1000 Reps worth
    of good! I really needed it, too.
     
  11. Apr 13, 2007 #11

    LillyBBBW

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    I think that a person should be able to do whatever it is they want to do as long as it harms no one else. I recall when I decided to go into music everyone warned me against it saying, "Yeah but what if you don't make it, what if you fail, what will you do when you're 40 and it hasn't worked out?" Lots of people thought I was crazy for throwing away a money making career and choosing the path I chose but I did so knowing the risks and the personal rewards. It was my choice to make and I was prepared to face the consequences for my actions whatever those consequences may be. I would not have been happy any other way and it's my happiness I'm responsible for, no one elses.

    The same can be said for anything anyone feels in their heart is the right thing to do weather it's gaining weight or losing weight though diets or surgery. People should be able to make whatever decision is right for them without having their sanity or intelligence called into question as long as they are fully aware of the risks and are fully prepared to face the possible consequences for their actions.
     
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  12. Apr 13, 2007 #12

    LJ Rock

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    Good idea, AM... I had wanted to reply to this topic earlier but didn't get around to it. Thanks for the second chance. :)

    I don't think that there can necessarily be any concrete lines drawn between a person exhibiting "feederish" tendencies and their mental stability (other than perhaps a handful of annecdotal incidents.) I do believe however, that there is something undeniably and inherantly destructive about federism, for any and all parties involved, regardless of whether the idea of intentionally overeating and gaining weight makes you sick to your stomach or all hot and bothered.

    Some might argue that showing any kind of "self-destructive behavior" is a sign of deeper-rooted emotional or psychological issues. However, each of us is different, and we will all exhibit different behaviors as a means of expressing or coping with our varying emotional issues; just because one person has mental or emotional issues and is also a feeder or feedee, it does not mean that all feeders and feedees will necessarily have these same issues. By the same token, not all people with mental or emotional issues are going to exhibit the same kinds of behaviors. In some cases we may see said issues manifest themselves in eating disorders for example, or some kind self-abuse or mutilation. Some may just become withdrawn and depressed. Really it is quite fascinating, if you look at it, the many different ways that the human mind deals with trauma and dysfunction.

    Now this destructive side of feederism may occur to varying degrees of severity, but is destructive none the less. After all, how bad is it really to allow oneself to overindulge a bit on occasion for pleasure when compared to compulsively overeating and gaining weight to the point where it is almost beyond one's control? None the less, in both cases one is making a conscious decision to "throw caution to the wind" as it were, and gratify their immediate and base desire for indulgance and overindulgance, regardless of the potential risks. In fact, it might even be said that it is indeed this very destructiveness that is the main attraction for feeders and feedees, much in the same way that people are attracted to drug and alcohol abuse, sexual promiscuity, or any other so-called "reckless" behavior.

    There is a certain excitement in the notion of letting go, loosing control of a situation, getting lost in the moment or experience. It is indeed a thrill, almost a life affirming experience to allow yourself to get swept away in your passion for something that all else becomes inconsequential. This I think is one of things that personally has interested me in feederism all these years. Total self-indulgance, self-gratification, with no regard for anyone or anything else; it's just you and the food, nothing else. The consequences of your actions? We'll worry about those tomorrow! Right now, it's all about the moment. It's all about attempting to satisfy the insatiable, to quench the unquenchable, completely giving into temptaion and getting lost in your desires.

    But of course, there are always consequences to such actions. Aren't there? Aside from weight gain and the matters of physical health that go along with it, there are a host psychological and emotional issues that go along with granting yourself the power to satisfy your every whim at a moments notice. (How easy is it for us to become addicted to a behavior that gives us so much pleasure and excitement all at once?) Not to mention the fact that the concept of "gluttony" truly can be considered "sinful," in the face of those oh so many people around the world who are starving and must go without what so many of us here take for granted!

    And then there is yet another issue: how does this apply when you have a person for whom it their desire to see someone else do all the "indulging?" It's almost as if the "feeder" is living vicariously through his "feedee," allowing her to experience all of this decadence and "sinfulness" and saving himself the from the "consequences" that follow. Of course, there are control issues that can be involved as well. There are surely incidents where the "feeder" in question is really just an abusive person whos mission it is to dis-empower someone and take control over them. Part of it may be a matter of safety in numbers: as if the feeder says, "if this other person (the feedee) is doing what I want to do, in fact is doing it even MORE than I am or ever have, then really how bad can I be?" More still, I think the desire for "excess" can be sexually stimulating for many people (especially for those with addictive personality types) and this may the attraction for many others still.

    I've been coming to this place for a long time, and it was my interest in wg and feederism (particularly as they apply to the bbw and ssbbw) that brought me here. Make no mistake about that! This post is in no way "anti-feeder" nor is it "pro-feeder." I'm not looking to get involved with that debate here and now. This is simply a collection of thoughts and observations on the subject. We've spoken often here about the delicate balance between fantasy and reality, but there always seems to be a "safety line" of sorts that no one dares cross; we want to keep it real without spoiling the fun. I don't want to spoil the fun either, but maybe (at least for me in my life) it's time to start keeping it a little more real where all of this is concerned. :confused:
     
  13. Apr 13, 2007 #13

    Tina

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    I agree. I have watched all kinds of people do all kinds of crazy things, and it's not up to me to stop them. Doesn't mean I won't have an opinion -- doesn't mean I will even give my opinion, and I certainly don't call their sanity or intelligence into question.

    Sheesh. I never thought that one question, based on things that have been posted here and elsewhere, and not just pulled out of thin air, would cause such a stir, so many flared tempers and grasped onto with such terrier tenacity.

    I think that's an interesting point. I think for some it really is a control issue, and for others it's not. And, like you say, maybe for some others it is a way of living vicariously through the feeded without having to suffer any of the negative consequences. That's something I can never know, as I really cannot relate to wanting to feed someone in a way beyond liking to cook for my boyfriend, enjoying that he enjoys it, and maybe feeding each other spoonfulls. I couldn't imagine wanting to strap him to a table and shove food or a tube in his mouth. Just not something that is part of my own reality, so I cannot relate.
     
  14. Apr 13, 2007 #14

    AnnMarie

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    I agree. Unless you're someone's therapist, you really don't know what is in someone's mind. Drastic life alteration happens in many walks of life, and mental stability is generally called into question (meaning professional exams before sex changes, etc), but we're not the ones who make those calls for someone who desires extreme gain/immobility, etc.

    I can understand how one might speculate that anyone willing to give up their mobility and freedom may not be of sound mind, but it's just that... speculation. They clearly are dealing with life in a different way than those who don't share the interest, and if it "works" for them, if it's their choice and desire, it's not my place to judge their emotional/mental fitness. I know it's not what I'd want for my life, but that doesn't mean I'm right and they're wrong (not saying anyone here has said that).
     
  15. Apr 13, 2007 #15

    AnnMarie

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    Really intersting post, LJ... good thoughts.
     
  16. Apr 13, 2007 #16

    Tina

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    One does not need to be an expert on body size to see that someone who is, say, 500 lbs, is really fat. Not a judgement, just an obvservation.

    Likewise, one does not need to be a therapist to see the writings and photographic evidence of a person who is admittedly very self-destructive, with various mental problems, to observe that they are mentally unstable. Why is stating one much worse than the other? Because the mentally ill are thought of to be "less than"? Well so are fat people. And fact is, some people I love are bi-polar and I have had some problems with depression myself, so I do not feel that people with such problems are "less than."

    I find it very odd that the only -- ONLY -- photos I have seen of women with feeding tubes have admittedly had mental and emotional problems. Is that me judging them? No, it is me making an observation, because it made me wonder why. If the two were attached somehow. If it was a death wish or just something they like. But saying this in public is somehow a bad thing, because people see it as a judgement. Whatever.

    If someone has to be a professional to make observations, then there would be a whole lot less posts on this board, I can tell you, but somehow I stepped into some unmarked, taboo area. That makes me a baaaaad person, who, ironically (or, maybe even hypocritically), it is okay to judge.
     
  17. Apr 13, 2007 #17

    Green Eyed Fairy

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    Personally, I don't care if people are feeders/feedees. I don't put people down for it or expect them to change. By being this way, I hope I'm giving to others what I would want from them- no interference in my lifestyle.
    Do I have my opinions about what the draw of feederism is? Yes, I think it's control issues but then again, that's just the outside looking in opinion of someone who isn't into it. It's really just not my thing and I'm not looking to change that- or others.
    Btw, it's my own control issues that make the idea of feederism look so unattractive to me- probably why I see it as something to do with control issues- whether I'm right or wrong doesn't make two cents to me- I'm not that concerned with it *shrugs*
     
  18. Apr 13, 2007 #18

    bigsexy920

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    Good Thread and LJRocks that is a great post.
     
  19. Apr 13, 2007 #19

    AnnMarie

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    I'm not sure if you're talking about this thread, or the last one?

    Speaking for my own comments in reply to Lilly, they weren't about you - and I didn't read hers as being about you either (again, I'm confused if that's even what you were feeling). They're just about the entire issue as a whole and how it's judged/viewed by people - both inside and outside this "scene".

    My hope for this thread is discussion from both sides, which has been happening so far - with no blame/finger pointing in either direction. I think very few people here will be in total agreement about much of anything, but I think it's helpful to hear all the different views/takes on something that is so controversial... even here where it has some sort of "home".
     
  20. Apr 13, 2007 #20

    AnnMarie

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    I think that's how a lot of people view it, GEF, and it's certainly some aspect of it for some participants.

    I personally am not into intentional gain - I'm happy with me as is, but I understand and can enjoy the more playful aspect of feeding/food, etc. To me, the interesting aspect is the sensual/nurturing one, the intimacy that can be involved, and that's a side of it that rarely gets much face time because there is so much talk about control (the controversy always wins :) ).

    Anyway, just wanted to bring that up so you could at least think about it with another side if you want. :)
     

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