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Forgotten_Futures

The *other* Holy Trinity
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Not on the main site, signing up for the forums is 18. As for the forums, I believe I answered this. Them breaking the TOS doesn't do anything against the fact that they are still here. Even if you don't think they should be taken into account, the majority of what I've said is still valid.
The under-18 crowd (who we admittedly do know surfs here regardless of rules) are not considered for the sheer and simple sake that they DO NOT belong here - therefore why should we cater anything to them?

Secondly, I think it makes sense to mention Federal Statutory Rape laws, which state that crossing state boundaries in order to partake of sexual activity of any kind with a person under the age of 16 is a Federal Crime. This is particularly heinous when the involved is under the age of 12.

Further, many states have their own specific laws on this matter. For instance, in the state of New Jersey, having sexual relations with a person under age 13 is punishable by 10-20 years in prison. Also, I - at the age of 22 - cannot legally engage in sexual activity with anyone between 13 and 16, the legal maximum age difference being 4 years. Anyone over 16 is clear, with explicit consent, and due to the edginess of such laws, one is generally wise to avoid sex with a minor entirely if one is not a minor.

The Church (and while I am not Christian any longer, I do still agree on this point) holds that having sexual relations with an individual in one's mind is tantamount to having those relations with them in reality. Thus it can be said that an individual fantasizing about a minor in any context (in this case, as a fat person and/or gainer/eater) is having sexual relations with that minor. Whether or not the minor is real is inconsequential - in their mind, that person has knowingly, willingly, and, perhaps worst, eagerly experienced sexual arousal at the hands of an underage personage.

That said... while I do not agree that non-explicit stories featuring underage protagonists are inherently bad and/or pedophilic in nature, this is not the place for them, and protecting this site is more important than creating an outlet for underage viewers - which, as I've stated, do not even belong on this site.

So what it all boils down to is a pre-emptive strike. If it has the potential to be a problem, it is a virtual problem, and therefore needs to be dealt with/prevented before it becomes a real problem.
 

Forgotten_Futures

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I shouldn't have to mention that what you're talking about and what I'm talking about are two completely different entities. Shareholders certainly are not in any way the users of this site.

Like I said, I know it's more of a Monarchy. I'm just not sure why you're trying to make it out like it's not.

Clearly he's not heavily involved with the site though, and we could let more things slip through and allow said leeway if we wanted to use it. That's what I have issue with.
Hey mate, if you want underage material to read and/or wank to, I'm sure there's plenty of sites on the web which have it. I'm not going to try and find them.
 

Observer

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Thank you WF and FF. You both understand the situation.

As for Conrad "not getting that involved" so the mice can play while the cat is away, that is pure fantasy. He of course doesn't read every story and every post. But any time we as mods have a question or need he's responsive . There is something that always amazes me in such exchanges: how much he reveals that he's been quietly picking up on without saying anything. He is definitely "involved" but not commonly at the posting level.
 

Vader7476

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It's disheartening that I have to, yet again, say this.

1. The story in question was on the main site, not the forums. The main point overlooked, is the retroactiveness of the action and pointlessness given many of the contexts(That it's been here so long, plenty other underage stories, etc.) Why cater toward them? Because they ARE here. Not belonging is irrelevant to the equation if they in fact take part. If this site is for fat celebration, as Observer clearly said earlier, why hold the ones that need the most encouragement to embrace this odd fetish away for so long and possibly think it's wrong or that they're unwanted? [The answer to that, this being adult, having adult website, stories, etc. is obvious. But clearly those kids shouldn't be entirely shunned in every way, and certainly aren't stupid enough to not know of everything on this site after a little while. Certainly before they're eighteen]

2. Masturbation isn't allowed by the church, don't bring the church up in any kind of issue such as this. Especially when you admitted you're no longer a member. And all of the laws are for ACTUAL pedophilia. Nothing written applies at all, nor does fantasy. So most of what you have written is null and void.

3. Are you saying those stories are bad, or not? Your wording is off. In any event, not the place for them is the entire issue. It SHOULD be the place for as much WG celebration as we can have. There is no protection issues, and you know that.

4. Who says you'd have to find those sites? And guess what? Here's a real brain buster: If they were on this site, would you have the option to not read them? If you say yes, and you have the ability to not read whatever you choose(Such as many people on here with BHM, or tranformations, etc.) then what then is such a big deal? Especially considering, and I can't stress this enough, that there are plenty of stories on this site that include minors and those that gain weight. To exclude one, is to exclude them all. You simply can not have this both ways. Either follow the rules, or don't. Because given the rules, I'd guess at least a third of all the stories would be gone. Or should be gone I guess would be the correct wording.

5. Stop being so haughty. I understand the situation completely. For the most part, I don't even like reading underage stories. And the story in question, was quite poorly written. It's wrong to assume you understand better than I do, or have better values.

6. I've never talked to Conrad, probably never will. But if he ever wants to talk to me, I'll be sure to discuss anything he wants with me. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if by the end, he saw merit in what I said. At the moment, that's neither here nor there, and your post is like a lot of your posts. It doesn't really disagree with what I'm saying. You pretty much confirm that for the most part, aside from large issues, he's in the dark.
 

AJTano

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Nope, no such list of stories we bounced was kept, although I do remember the theme of the story that created the firestorm.

It involved a spoiled and corpulent seven year old compulsive eater who gained so much weight that she broke the back of her birthday pony, killing it - and her indifferent reaction was simply to whine for more cake. The graphic portrayal of obvious parental irresponsibility and animal abuse created a firestorm that directly led to my becoming the curator of the collection.

[...]

What everyone agreed on was that the pony story was too much. It was yanked immediately.
Do you remember the title and/or author of said story? I was so sure I had at least skimmed every story in the library, yet am sure I would have remembered this one.:confused:
 

Observer

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Just for the record, a number of apples and oranges are getting mixed here. I'm not going to debate this, but knowing that others than the current contributors to this thread are reading it there are some clarifications to be made:

1. "baby fat" was a fantasy built around graphic descriptions of a pre-pubescent minor starting at age four and being propelled into juvenile obesity by the action of adults - it was by definition pedophilia and child porn, not just a protagonist who happened to be 18. As far as I can tell it apparently climbed in over the transom before the WR had any screening and never got removed. I'm not immediately aware of any others quite so graphically explicit but if there are someone please PM me And they will be next on the hit list.

2. There are stories in the WR that do not meet the current age requirements. There are other stories there that don't meet requirements in other areas. Most if not all go back to an era were everyone and their brother was tossing material into the hopper on a random basis. Some of the four and five paragraph scraps IMHO don't even qualify as a legitimate story.Then Wilson Barbers organized things into the author and key order you see today, still with no content restrictions. And finally a few guidelines were issued but with no backwards review. So there presently are some inconsistencies. As time allows we are slowly migrating stories from the WR to the forum collection; as we do this changes are being made.

3. The current rules are not ignoring the need for size friendly literature for the teen audience. If you read closely you will; see that teen protagonists are allowed but the manner of their characterization is defined. The rule are thus controlling the content of stories featuring protagonists in that age group - keeping it G/PG rather than R or X. And those stories seem to do pretty well - the series on Lynn and Tina by the Id are two good examples.

I've not seen a great deal of protest by the teens that we should be doing things more graphic and explicit - that we're being too "tame" for their adolescent tastes. By the way, the Id began writing his stories when he was still a minor - he's now barely 21. And we have several other young authors; trust me, the youth market for WR fiction isn't being shafted.
 

Observer

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Do you remember the title and/or author of said story? I was so sure I had at least skimmed every story in the library, yet am sure I would have remembered this one.:confused:
According your join date the pony story was gone six months before you signed up. It was probably only up 2-3 days before drawing massive complaints from the general Dimensions community. I've only seen such a vocal community negative reaction one other time..
 

AJTano

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According your join date the pony story was gone six months before you signed up. It was probably only up 2-3 days before drawing massive complaints from the general Dimensions community. I've only seen such a vocal community negative reaction one other time..
Ah, I didn't join the forum until quite a while after I had started browsing regularly. So do you remember the author or name?
 

Observer

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Nope.

I do seem to recall that the author was making other inappropriate posts in other forums and ended up being banned as a troll.

IMHO you didn't lose out on anything.
 

Vader7476

Divine Sith Lord
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It was not pedophilia or child porn by definition. And aside from one paragraph which could have easily been removed, and in said paragraph nothing really happens or is described, it's clear it was a lead up to a larger story that just never got finished. And for those readers who are smart about it, there are still ways to find it and read it.

Regardless, it's not inherently bad or disgusting to allow some of these stories, like that Pony story. Not everything can be sunshine and rainbows, and it gets boring having the same format for every story.

Yes, I know of ID. He and I are pretty good friends. I even started drawing and writing years ago when I wasn't 18. But some of his stories, that involve those teens, are definitely R. And they're excellent. I'd rather not see them go. As for the teen protest, they're not supposed to be on here. I doubt they'd be stupid enough to speak up and get kicked out.
 

Atilde

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Dear Friends,

Perhaps you have "seen" some of my stories here. As a writer, I play with my imagination. I know what is a dream and what is reality. When as a reader I read a story in the forum, it is because I want to go out of reality.

My opinion is that we have to respect all aspects of law. It is sure, because we do not want to have Our forum closed. But I think that discussing about what is good and what is not good is another point. If one person has a problem reading one story because one aspect seems not according to the law, this story has to be removed. If this story in not according to his or her taste it is another problem.

If we want to have liberty, we have to know what is the respect and the limits between us.

When I write a story, If there is a possible interpretation about racism or other bad things, I tell that I will remove the story if one person is not ok with that.

It is not easy to explain something with my poor vocabulary, but what I want to tell is that when you write a story, it may not be the same story in the head of the reader. It is what we have to take in consideration.

Since some years I'm happy to have found Dimension's stories and a very pleasant community with this forum. I do not love everything but I've really loved some stories and I've never found something disturbing.

But... Yes but.... If one person says : "I do not like fat peoples" or Making one person fat reduce life time ( and making her thin?......:) ) etc... are we killers????? If one person says that when he, she was young, she, he has wanted to grow fat, or wanted to have his wife and or her husband fattened... Can we say we are pedophiles or killers?????

No, it is sure, we have not the right to do everything, But we have the power to dream.

The problem is that some persons have not the same level of relativity of the events than some of us, and do not know the limit between what is a dream and a real things.

We have seen the problem with some computer games and others.

We have to take care not putting wrong dreams in their head. We may have a responsibility at this level.

Whooo you have read all these lines????

Please apologies for my lack of vocabulary, but every day I know that I have to say "Many Thanks" to This site.

Take care

Atilde
 

Observer

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Thank you Atilde. For a native French speaker you are improving in English, so you need not apologize (I know I have said that before, but it is true).

You are correct of course about the law - whether the law of a nation or of a household. We must obey or accept the penalties. And you are also right about tastes. What one of us likes another may not, but we need to respect the tastes of others as long as they are lawful in the place where we are.

There is also another aspect.

There are tastes that we may both personally like but which are not lawful. These, if one is in a position such as myself, must be avoided. It is I think useful at such times important to understand why some tings are not lawful

As an example, I am working on coaching a writer on a story has not been posted. He had a flashback scene that showed a fat-hating protagonist ridiculing a random fat six year old child in a restaurant because of his size; also hurling insults at the children's grandfather for letting the fat child have as treat a huge bowl of ice cream.

The scene was not sexual in anyway. It was verbally abusive to the child and meant to illustrate the total bigotry and evil nature of the fat-hating protagonist - and was very effective. Personally the abuse made me hate the villain even more than I already did.

But a problem: the law here at Dimensions says that we do not involve pre-pubescent children in stories in this way. I therefore had to advise the author that we would need to delete the scene. And he did. The story when it appears will not have it.

Why do we have such a law? Because here in America, abusing, traumatizing and/or exploiting children, even to vilify an evil character in fiction, is held to be wrong in many quarters. It is part of a general social objection to child porn and abuse. The owner of the Dimensions website has agreed to respect this feeling by making a law against it.

Personally I agree with this position or I would not hold the post that I do - but that is not the point. It is his site and he has a right to make the laws. I know that you understand and accept this. I wish everyone could.
 

Atilde

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Hello Observer,

Many Thanks for these explanations.
In fact the idea is the following :
We have not to wait for the law to put your limits. This is the real liberty, mine is to never have children involved in my stories because IT IS DANGEROUS.
I told the reasons on my last message.

But I've wanted sometime to write a story about how it is difficult sometime for a child to be rejected because he is overweight. Because I wanted to tell that what makes us is not our aspect or the fashion standards, but who we are.

Perhaps the writer you are helping wanted to tell that at his manner, but This situation is perhaps too real and too rude to be used in a story. I've never written this story because of that.

I've never written it also because there is no need to make the apology of thin or fat. Our world is terrific, but Our world is beautiful,several colors several things, several persons, tall, small,, fat thin, all that mixed. All variety for all taste. (Thanks God.)

As we says : "If you don't like that....". One friend of mine had no boyfriend when slim 40 pounds after she had one they are married now. Her husband is slim.

One other friend of mine was overweight she has lost a lot of pounds she is married now. Her husband is very round. There is now logic. There is love.

(Don't be afraid sometime for slim with slim or overweight with overweight it works also. :) )


To end now, I want to say that
"We are not responsible of the face we have, but we are responsible of the face we make."

Sincerely

Atilde
 

Observer

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.

But I've wanted sometime to write a story about how it is difficult sometime for a child to be rejected because he is overweight. Because I wanted to tell that what makes us is not our aspect or the fashion standards, but who we are.

Perhaps the writer you are helping wanted to tell that at his manner, but This situation is perhaps too real and too rude to be used in a story. I've never written this story because of that.
Well, the writer I am speaking of was not trying to address that issue in this particular story. He was simply showing in a series of flashbacks what a jerk the main protagonist had been, using his abuse of the chubby child and the grandfather as an example.

That does not mean the story you suggest shouldn't be written. Personally I would love to see it done - that's my taste. I would even be willing to privately help you edit it as I have done others. But, if we did so, the acceptability laws of this site means that, because a pre-pubescent child is involved, we would have to post it elsewhere.

This is what I mean about being willing to honor the law ahead of personal taste. You and I would be willing to go ahead and post it where it would be accepted. Unfortunately not everyone has this view. They feel entitled to have the laws rewritten to suit their taste just because this is the biggest venue of its kind in cyberspace. It of course doesn't work that way.
 

Vader7476

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Why do we have such a law? Because here in America, abusing, traumatizing and/or exploiting children, even to vilify an evil character in fiction, is held to be wrong in many quarters. It is part of a general social objection to child porn and abuse. The owner of the Dimensions website has agreed to respect this feeling by making a law against it.

Personally I agree with this position or I would not hold the post that I do - but that is not the point. It is his site and he has a right to make the laws. I know that you understand and accept this. I wish everyone could.
That's fucking bullshit and you know it.
 

Blame Picasso

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Thanks to Observer for keeping our library a place that has some taste and decorum. Stories such as the two mentioned above are unecessary and would reflect poorly on those of us who frequent the library.

Kudos to Risible on the awesome stock trading baby avatar, I love those commercials. I relate because I too, think clowns are just plain creepy.

Casso
 

Observer

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That's fucking bullshit and you know it.
Nope, I don't know that at all. The statements you quote supported and validated Atilde's post and was addressed to him, so I know he agrees. The unnamed author I was referencing in my example understood the logic as well, as obviously did Forgotten Futures and Blame Picasso.

The content of this sdite is classified as "adult" which mesans that those under 18 can't post and contribute. But interest in size appreciation and weight related issues doesn't begin with a calendar date. We know and are mindful that those under still visit and not in small numbers.

In consequence of this reality, anything to do with minors on a site such as this has to be handled very carefully - there are guidelines which are community law and for good reason: to prevent problems. The Webmaster whose company pays the bills for the community gets to make the laws of this community. It is the same for any website.

One of the good things coming of all this uncensored back and forth: I have been getting PMs offering to help with the migration of stories from the WR collection, including proofreading and formatting. The offers are appreciated and as long as the pay - zero - is acceptable more are welcome.
 

Risible

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Thanks to Observer for keeping our library a place that has some taste and decorum. Stories such as the two mentioned above are unecessary and would reflect poorly on those of us who frequent the library.

Kudos to Risible on the awesome stock trading baby avatar, I love those commercials. I relate because I too, think clowns are just plain creepy.

Casso
I get more enjoyment out of just these e-trade commercials than the entire show they run within; had to look them up on youtube.

And, yeah, the clown thing. There are threads here on Dims about the whole scary clown sentiment. Turns out, a lot of people don't find clowns any too wholesome. :p
 

SocialbFly

I am keeping Tina!
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If we want to have liberty, we have to know what is the respect and the limits between us.


No, it is sure, we have not the right to do everything, But we have the power to dream.
Atilde
and you know, you have the power to dream, some of us dont want to read it. dream it, but keep it to yourself if you there are controversial ideas like underage involvement or other socially unacceptable ideas.
 

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