Root origin of my attraction to fat women: figured it out

[Sonic Purity]

Thanks again to everyone who’s posted above. It’s interesting the many facets and considerations each of us brings to the table/discussion.

Before i make my point, this for Donna in the Dimensions system caught my eye:
member: 58

Now that’s O.G.!

Back to our discussion:

I've heard all my life men are visual creatures (my mother used to say it as a motivator to get me to lose weight.) My personal experiences have been different. I don't know if it is because I am a touchy-feely person myself, but all but one of my former partners were extremely tactile.

The visual creatures thing seems to be one of many tired stereotypes. I mean, rewinding back to the savannah, how exactly was a woman selecting whom she’d allow to mate with her? Did she just let the men beat each other up and go with the survivor? Did she wait until he was close enough to read his scent? Wouldn’t she have had some visual considerations?

What about love at first sight? I’ve not noticed that being a one-way thing in romance novels—at least not most of the time. Sure it can be one-way, as can love triggered for any reason, but i’m sensing far more symmetry.

This is not directed at any specific individual. It’s just something i’ve noticed from experience over time, of which Donna’s post reminded me:

Woman writes “touchy-feely”: all is well.
Man writes “touchy-feely”: CREEPER!

I used to use that term as it was accurate for me, but the results were very bad.

I have a thought: what if it is six of one and half a dozen of the other? In other words, what if men are (on average) equally visual and tactile (but both being of the physical nature), while women are a more even mixture of physical and emotional/mental? Regardless, we can (should??) pretty much all agree that the brains of women and men function differently; and that inherent difference continues to make our interactions with each other 'challenging'

Going to respectfully disagree with you on that last sentence, waldo. My personal experience inside my own non-binary head and with other people is that there can be greater differences between individuals classified under a given binary gender than individuals between the classifications. Very broad, sweeping generalization, yes you are correct as you wrote your sentence, but those generalizations so effectively marginalize people like myself i cannot let them go with no comment.

I wasn’t in any kind of closet; i just lacked the terminology/language for what i was about. Given the paucity of options, i went with Broken or Defective Man. It took me all the way until 2018 researching a musician i admired and being upset that she got to be something nifty and wonderful on the gender spectrum and i had nothing. Then i carefully re-read the definition for her self-classification. Then i dug deeper. Then i looked back to my history—something no one can manipulate, as it is the past, unchangeable. Taking these new conclusions and dropping it on this chart (least-worst one i’ve come across so far. I welcome superior, more refined options):

I come out right about like this:

It’s very blurry in my brain. Some days, some moments, i’m nearly a stereotypical man inside my head. Other moments that day, or other days, i’m at the other end, or more often somewhere in between, ever-shifting.

Gender expression blurs too. Difficult to blur with clothes, so at any given time things like clothing would be one point somewhere on that line. Behavior others can see, such as body language, on the other hand can shift as rapidly as inside my mind, so the overall presentation can indeed be that blurry.

Trying to pigeonhole someone like me into a binary category of Man or Woman is highly problematic, and to me, often damaging. Biologically there is not any question whatsoever that i am hard-pegged Male, non-ambiguous. Yet my brain doesn’t work like that of a stereotypical man. The brain of Sonic functions differently than either of the Man or Woman binary classifications.

Non-binarily yours,

 

[Donna]

Sonic, sweetie, if OG = old girl, I’ll take it.

OK, you all continue with your serious discussion.

 

[waldo]

Sonic, sweetie, if OG = old girl, I’ll take it.

OK, you all continue with your serious discussion.

You do know what OG refers to, right??
For those who don't know, it is actually 'original gangster' and seems to be from the hip-hop/urban black culture. But yes, I would agree as member #58 all the way back in 2005 (although the board system was totally changed at that time and everyone had to re-signup), it's still an impressive achievement for Ms. Donna to be here after all this time (despite a long absence) - staying power for the win!!!

 

[waldo]

Thanks again to everyone who’s posted above. It’s interesting the many facets and considerations each of us brings to the table/discussion.

Before i make my point, this for Donna in the Dimensions system caught my eye:
member: 58

Now that’s O.G.!

Back to our discussion:


The visual creatures thing seems to be one of many tired stereotypes. I mean, rewinding back to the savannah, how exactly was a woman selecting whom she’d allow to mate with her? Did she just let the men beat each other up and go with the survivor? Did she wait until he was close enough to read his scent? Wouldn’t she have had some visual considerations?

What about love at first sight? I’ve not noticed that being a one-way thing in romance novels—at least not most of the time. Sure it can be one-way, as can love triggered for any reason, but i’m sensing far more symmetry.

This is not directed at any specific individual. It’s just something i’ve noticed from experience over time, of which Donna’s post reminded me:

Woman writes “touchy-feely”: all is well.
Man writes “touchy-feely”: CREEPER!

I used to use that term as it was accurate for me, but the results were very bad.



Going to respectfully disagree with you on that last sentence, waldo. My personal experience inside my own non-binary head and with other people is that there can be greater differences between individuals classified under a given binary gender than individuals between the classifications. Very broad, sweeping generalization, yes you are correct as you wrote your sentence, but those generalizations so effectively marginalize people like myself i cannot let them go with no comment.

I wasn’t in any kind of closet; i just lacked the terminology/language for what i was about. Given the paucity of options, i went with Broken or Defective Man. It took me all the way until 2018 researching a musician i admired and being upset that she got to be something nifty and wonderful on the gender spectrum and i had nothing. Then i carefully re-read the definition for her self-classification. Then i dug deeper. Then i looked back to my history—something no one can manipulate, as it is the past, unchangeable. Taking these new conclusions and dropping it on this chart (least-worst one i’ve come across so far. I welcome superior, more refined options):
View attachment 149205
I come out right about like this:
View attachment 149206
It’s very blurry in my brain. Some days, some moments, i’m nearly a stereotypical man inside my head. Other moments that day, or other days, i’m at the other end, or more often somewhere in between, ever-shifting.

Gender expression blurs too. Difficult to blur with clothes, so at any given time things like clothing would be one point somewhere on that line. Behavior others can see, such as body language, on the other hand can shift as rapidly as inside my mind, so the overall presentation can indeed be that blurry.

Trying to pigeonhole someone like me into a binary category of Man or Woman is highly problematic, and to me, often damaging. Biologically there is not any question whatsoever that i am hard-pegged Male, non-ambiguous. Yet my brain doesn’t work like that of a stereotypical man. The brain of Sonic functions differently than either of the Man or Woman binary classifications.

Non-binarily yours,

Yes I am sorry if I offended with my old-fashioned, simplistic comments. I am just really confused/perplexed about the gender fluidity issue. And that's not saying I don't have my own peculiarities. I am not just a straight cis-gendered FA. All kinds of things go through my own head, but I tend to leave them mostly to the 'fantasy world'. But I certainly don't want to minimize your experience and am glad you have been finding some clarification of your feelings in recent years. Your perspective is very welcome to help some of us to update our own viewpoints on the complexities of the human condition and the even more complex world of interpersonal relations.....

 

[Sonic Purity]

Yes I am sorry if I offended with my old-fashioned, simplistic comments. I am just really confused/perplexed about the gender fluidity issue. And that's not saying I don't have my own peculiarities. I am not just a straight cis-gendered FA. All kinds of things go through my own head, but I tend to leave them mostly to the 'fantasy world'. But I certainly don't want to minimize your experience and am glad you have been finding some clarification of your feelings in recent years. Your perspective is very welcome to help some of us to update our own viewpoints on the complexities of the human condition and the even more complex world of interpersonal relations.....

Thanks for your follow up, and for defining O.G. for everyone so i didn’t have to burn up a valuable public post and diminish my Dims Cred Quotient. Unlike someone a few years ago on another site, i knew that you were being honest and not intending to offend or hurt, so when i felt hurt, i just wanted to shine a light on the issue, for us to all discuss as we are. Yay us! Yay Dimensions for providing this gathering space to discuss like this!

We’re all living through this evolving new realm of terminology and awareness for what has almost certainly been present forever over the course of the existence of humanity, and often people like myself on the “inside” who fit one of the newer definitions are as confused and perplexed as those on the “outside” who know themselves to better fit one of the traditional gender definitions. It’s a lot easier mentally and memory-wise to have a binary This/That classification, which is why i think the human mind tends to go there—sports team rivalries, political parties, sides of an issue—when in reality there may be 3, 4, 5, or more sides, etc.

Personal Pronouns Digression
Confession: i’m tending old-fashioned with personal pronouns. Absolutely i respect everyone’s choices, but it’s suddenly a whole other layer of memory work.

Old Days: Judge by appearance/presentation. Use one of the binary pronoun sets (he/him/his, she/her/hers).

Now: No visible clue. Each of us is supposed to be told then memorize a person’s preferred personal pronouns.

To me it’s like having to memorize everyone’s favorite color before i can write or speak of them and get the pronouns correct.

**********
True story, told to me by my most recent healer, who lived it:

She entered her local dry cleaners to pick up her cleaned garments, hearing the end of a loud argument. A huffy individual she judged by appearances to be a woman stormed out.

As she approached the counter, she readily noticed the counter person, who to her appeared/acted/sounded like a 20-something or early 30-something young man, standing there in dazed shock. The following are not exact quotes, but do cover the gist of what she told me:

“What happened?” she asked him.
“I… I was just saying ‘Thank you, ma’am’, and that person went off on me about how he’s a man. How was I supposed to know the preferred pronouns?!”
**********
Exactly. Until we all start wearing buttons or pins with our preferred personal pronouns, how is someone to know? And even then, how is a blind person interacting with us and hearing just a voice supposed to know?

That’s why i’ve declared myself Pronoun Easy: any personal pronouns work for me, as long as they’re used respectfully (e.g. normally) rather than as an intentional insult.

He/him/his?: sure. Biologically that’s what i am, i was assigned male at birth and raised that way, and lived most of my life that way (or tried). Big ol’ Adam’s apple, angular features, medium-deep voice, not curvy body—sure, those are good. Most people go with these most of the time. I’m used to it and 100% good with them.

She/her/hers, ma’am, etc.?: Love it. I’ve been called “ma’am” several times, usually when first viewed from the back. Gives me a tingly thrill. A few years ago one morning bicycling to my then-dentist’s office when i looked much less femme than now, an intoxicated individual (by appearances a dark-skinned gentleman) apparently took me for a slender flat-chested woman, flirting or making a pass (i don’t know the difference between those) at me as i smiled and pedaled by. A few months ago on a warm day when i was walking around Toluca Lake (think of it as North Hollywood, or the heavy entertainment industry part of the San Fernando Valley, if you’re from away) after an appointment with my healer wearing my femme “Karen” (so i’ve been told) short shorts, a Hollywood producer/mogul-looking man rolled by slowly in his nice Cadillac from behind, calling out “Lookin’ good, baby!” He saw my face and heard me thanking him in a barely-raised pitch of my normal male voice at about the same time, his face turning more towards a mild scowl as he drove away.

They/them/theirs?: Alright. This seems to be where society is converging, turning the former plural forms into flexible all-purpose singulars and plurals. If/once widely accepted, lowers the mental burden of having to remember so many personal pronouns. The following may be icky/wrong-headed, but it’s how i think about things: when a fat person wants they/them/theirs, it’s easy for me to think of them that way and remember, because to me body-wise by volume they’re already plural. For me as a thin person and for other thin people, it‘s more of a mental stretch, to which i’m still adjusting. But if it makes it easier for you when referring to me, i’m all good with it.

Sie/hir/hirs?: These and others from last decade, which apparently are/were attempts to unify gender and keep things singular, seem to already be falling or have fallen out of favor. They were kinda weird and artificial and something else new to remember—another mental burden—hence i’m not truly surprised. But if you like them and want to use them for me, i’m good with that.

It/its?: Yes, that pronoun set has been used for me, most memorably by a then-little girl who’s now in her 40s, who, like others, saw me from behind first then from the front, pointing her 5 or 6 year old index finger at me and loudly proclaiming to all of us in that particular Canned Foods Grocery Outlet store (Berkeley, California), “Mommy! It’s a MA-annn!”. To which of course i smiled and twinkle-finger waved towards daughter and mother.

In summary, for me at least, unless a person is making a conscious effort to be insulting, it is impossible to get my personal pronouns wrong. Hopefully this lowers everyone’s mental burden. Hopefully more people will sign onto being Pronoun Easy.

Wishing everyone minimal mental burdens living in today’s society,

@Donna, if you want to be thought of as Old Girl, i’ll respect your wishes. Think i saw in another thread that you’re proud of your gray hair and owning it. Good deal. Michelle Shocked did several decades ago sing When I Grow Up I Want To Be An Old Woman (and the only video i can access is on mail.ru, so no), so… yeah.

Here in my world, i’m striving to stay as vibrant and young as possible, physically for sure, mentally with maturity. I was treated like old worthless garbage/ignored when my hair was left natural white/gray. Since coloring i’m treated as younger, and a lot better.

 

[extra_m13]

well if i had to explain in an honest way my attraction to fat women... it would probably be this. even is no one reads i will try to give a comprehensive answer evern if it is just for me. childhood had nothing in particular but... the fact that my mom usually pressed my sisters to be skinny and she herself tried really hard to be skinny all the time. so being chubby and being ok with it felt like a way to rebel to the statuquo which is for me very sexy and has a close taste to freedom and rebelling to the whatever it is supposed to be. now at 10-11-12 years old i began to see my classmates underskirts whenever i could and of course there were some chubby and some skinny ones. and by fat i preferred to see those chubby legs with cellulite and rolls and bellies, the skinny ones make me feel pretty much nothing even do as a kid i used to like a couple of skinny girls.

first few girls i dated and kissed, this around 15years old , i noticed i went after the chub and it was a delicious thing so after noticing my dick reacting to that i decided... what is the point of getting the fit girl and trying to grab some roll here and there? why not try to just get the curvier girl? and it was so, and it was a delicious thing and it was pure pleasure but... i wanted bigger. so at the end the strategy shifted to first look to date the chubby girl and try to make her gain some. because it is hot and erotic to see a lady eat more than what she should according to some dumb doctor and because it is so hot to grab rolls and fat and cellulite... that i feel everyday today

 

[waldo]

Thanks for your follow up, and for defining O.G. for everyone so i didn’t have to burn up a valuable public post and diminish my Dims Cred Quotient. Unlike someone a few years ago on another site, i knew that you were being honest and not intending to offend or hurt, so when i felt hurt, i just wanted to shine a light on the issue, for us to all discuss as we are. Yay us! Yay Dimensions for providing this gathering space to discuss like this!

We’re all living through this evolving new realm of terminology and awareness for what has almost certainly been present forever over the course of the existence of humanity, and often people like myself on the “inside” who fit one of the newer definitions are as confused and perplexed as those on the “outside” who know themselves to better fit one of the traditional gender definitions. It’s a lot easier mentally and memory-wise to have a binary This/That classification, which is why i think the human mind tends to go there—sports team rivalries, political parties, sides of an issue—when in reality there may be 3, 4, 5, or more sides, etc.

Personal Pronouns Digression
Confession: i’m tending old-fashioned with personal pronouns. Absolutely i respect everyone’s choices, but it’s suddenly a whole other layer of memory work.

Old Days: Judge by appearance/presentation. Use one of the binary pronoun sets (he/him/his, she/her/hers).

Now: No visible clue. Each of us is supposed to be told then memorize a person’s preferred personal pronouns.

To me it’s like having to memorize everyone’s favorite color before i can write or speak of them and get the pronouns correct.

**********
True story, told to me by my most recent healer, who lived it:

She entered her local dry cleaners to pick up her cleaned garments, hearing the end of a loud argument. A huffy individual she judged by appearances to be a woman stormed out.

As she approached the counter, she readily noticed the counter person, who to her appeared/acted/sounded like a 20-something or early 30-something young man, standing there in dazed shock. The following are not exact quotes, but do cover the gist of what she told me:

“What happened?” she asked him.
“I… I was just saying ‘Thank you, ma’am’, and that person went off on me about how he’s a man. How was I supposed to know the preferred pronouns?!”
**********
Exactly. Until we all start wearing buttons or pins with our preferred personal pronouns, how is someone to know? And even then, how is a blind person interacting with us and hearing just a voice supposed to know?

That’s why i’ve declared myself Pronoun Easy: any personal pronouns work for me, as long as they’re used respectfully (e.g. normally) rather than as an intentional insult.

He/him/his?: sure. Biologically that’s what i am, i was assigned male at birth and raised that way, and lived most of my life that way (or tried). Big ol’ Adam’s apple, angular features, medium-deep voice, not curvy body—sure, those are good. Most people go with these most of the time. I’m used to it and 100% good with them.

She/her/hers, ma’am, etc.?: Love it. I’ve been called “ma’am” several times, usually when first viewed from the back. Gives me a tingly thrill. A few years ago one morning bicycling to my then-dentist’s office when i looked much less femme than now, an intoxicated individual (by appearances a dark-skinned gentleman) apparently took me for a slender flat-chested woman, flirting or making a pass (i don’t know the difference between those) at me as i smiled and pedaled by. A few months ago on a warm day when i was walking around Toluca Lake (think of it as North Hollywood, or the heavy entertainment industry part of the San Fernando Valley, if you’re from away) after an appointment with my healer wearing my femme “Karen” (so i’ve been told) short shorts, a Hollywood producer/mogul-looking man rolled by slowly in his nice Cadillac from behind, calling out “Lookin’ good, baby!” He saw my face and heard me thanking him in a barely-raised pitch of my normal male voice at about the same time, his face turning more towards a mild scowl as he drove away.

They/them/theirs?: Alright. This seems to be where society is converging, turning the former plural forms into flexible all-purpose singulars and plurals. If/once widely accepted, lowers the mental burden of having to remember so many personal pronouns. The following may be icky/wrong-headed, but it’s how i think about things: when a fat person wants they/them/theirs, it’s easy for me to think of them that way and remember, because to me body-wise by volume they’re already plural. For me as a thin person and for other thin people, it‘s more of a mental stretch, to which i’m still adjusting. But if it makes it easier for you when referring to me, i’m all good with it.

Sie/hir/hirs?: These and others from last decade, which apparently are/were attempts to unify gender and keep things singular, seem to already be falling or have fallen out of favor. They were kinda weird and artificial and something else new to remember—another mental burden—hence i’m not truly surprised. But if you like them and want to use them for me, i’m good with that.

It/its?: Yes, that pronoun set has been used for me, most memorably by a then-little girl who’s now in her 40s, who, like others, saw me from behind first then from the front, pointing her 5 or 6 year old index finger at me and loudly proclaiming to all of us in that particular Canned Foods Grocery Outlet store (Berkeley, California), “Mommy! It’s a MA-annn!”. To which of course i smiled and twinkle-finger waved towards daughter and mother.

In summary, for me at least, unless a person is making a conscious effort to be insulting, it is impossible to get my personal pronouns wrong. Hopefully this lowers everyone’s mental burden. Hopefully more people will sign onto being Pronoun Easy.

Wishing everyone minimal mental burdens living in today’s society,

@Donna, if you want to be thought of as Old Girl, i’ll respect your wishes. Think i saw in another thread that you’re proud of your gray hair and owning it. Good deal. Michelle Shocked did several decades ago sing When I Grow Up I Want To Be An Old Woman (and the only video i can access is on mail.ru, so no), so… yeah.

Here in my world, i’m striving to stay as vibrant and young as possible, physically for sure, mentally with maturity. I was treated like old worthless garbage/ignored when my hair was left natural white/gray. Since coloring i’m treated as younger, and a lot better.

Thanks for the additional comments. So does that website that you used for the graphs (www.gendersanity.com) have a 'survey' that anyone can take and get a readout of their gender identity profile?
I really appreciate your comments on the whole 'pronouns' issue. Your more accepting approach is better because being upset at every stranger that you perceived to have slighted you is a rough way to go through life. It's like that really old song, but you and I both know it (couldn't have lived through the '80s and not): Don't Worry, Be Happy.
As far as grey hair: while balding significantly, most of what I have 'left' is mostly grey. So just yesterday I had my wife (a talented hairdresser) color my hair. I wanted to go with the Just for Men "touch of grey', but it seems not available in the stores around here anymore. Pretty shocking to look at myself in the mirror and see no grey up there. It will be interesting how I get perceived in public. I understand and empathize about how you were feeling disrespected and disregarded. My main clue as to how I may be treated differently in absence of the grey hair is: how do they deal with me when it comes to getting my booze purchases authorized at the checkout. I suspect I will get more store clerks wanting to see the actual ID card after this....... If not, then DAMN, I must look really old

 

[Sonic Purity]

Thanks for the additional comments. So does that website that you used for the graphs (www.gendersanity.com) have a 'survey' that anyone can take and get a readout of their gender identity profile?

Not last i checked. Indeed before i posted, that site was offline. When i went there a few years ago, they had the first (blank) graphic i posted. Their intent was mainly to increase the vocabulary and mental concepts beyond the societal man/woman all-encompassing binary designations as a package deal of what in reality are so many different dimensions of existence.

I had to figure out mine on my own from all sorts of sources over many decades. I made a copy of the original image and colored it in manually using my graphics app (GraphicConverter, which i use instead of Photoshop or Gimp for most purposes).

I really appreciate your comments on the whole 'pronouns' issue. Your more accepting approach is better because being upset at every stranger that you perceived to have slighted you is a rough way to go through life. It's like that really old song, but you and I both know it (couldn't have lived through the '80s and not): Don't Worry, Be Happy.

Thanks. It puzzles me why people would set themselves up to make it easy for strangers to guess incorrectly something which cannot be known without prior knowledge, else asking, else some visible/audible/able to be sensed indicator.

Yes, Bobby McFerrin’s hit of positivity. Aside on that: i have a database of every song i ever played on KALX during my years there of 1980-1995—the ones which were written down onto the paper playlists and i eventually got the playlists back (once the Music Department was done tallying them) anyway. Just searched that database on “Don’t Worry”. I never played Don’t Worry, Be Happy. I did play Talking Heads’ Don’t Worry ’Bout The Government twice (March and August 1981), as well as the reggae song Don’t Worry Your Mind by Pato Banton (December 1987) and Don’t Worry Kyoko by Tater Totz (punk?, July 1988). I remember the Talking Heads song, but not those last two.

Do i win for most trivial trivia in a Dimensions post?

As far as grey hair: while balding significantly, most of what I have 'left' is mostly grey. So just yesterday I had my wife (a talented hairdresser) color my hair. I wanted to go with the Just for Men "touch of grey', but it seems not available in the stores around here anymore. Pretty shocking to look at myself in the mirror and see no grey up there. It will be interesting how I get perceived in public. I understand and empathize about how you were feeling disrespected and disregarded. My main clue as to how I may be treated differently in absence of the grey hair is: how do they deal with me when it comes to getting my booze purchases authorized at the checkout. I suspect I will get more store clerks wanting to see the actual ID card after this....... If not, then DAMN, I must look really old

yes. Though society tends to associate hair loss with age, so on the lack of hair criterion alone, they may not ask for your ID. Almost typed “they may not card you”, and now i’m thinking that that phrase may soon join “hang up” and “give me the 411” and many others on the pile of obsolete sayings. But that’s another Dims thread somewhere else….

 

[Donna]

I have a question, but before I ask it, I want to preface that I am asking based solely on personal curiosity, and not to be critical. Since reading this entire thread, and others like it, and given my tendency to pick a subject apart and over-analyze each of the parts without taking the whole into consideration....I'm left to wonder why is it important for a lot of FA to feel like they have to explain their attraction to BBW/SSBBW? It seems especially more so for those attracted to us super-size women.**

Is it because we are considered outside societal norms, or "other"? Is it only because you (FA) have been conditioned that there is something inherently not right about your attraction? And at the risk of sounding sexist, is it just a "guy" thing?

I think I'm tearing it apart, and obviously missing something important amongst the pieces, because it seems foreign to me. I'm not exclusively attracted to one body type, which may be why I'm curious. Have I missed a critical piece of information here? I understand what attracts you all, but I still can't figure out why it's important to define it?

(**By the way, and for the record, the term super-size, even though I use it, makes me cringe inwardly because dammit, I am not a McDonalds hamburger, fries & coke. But that's not really my point here, just another subject rolling around in my muddled brainwaves today.)

 

[SSBHM]

Now I have a super sized happy meal stuck in my mind! Should I associate a SSBBW with a whopper? Oh, oh, should I have written that?

I don't know how to explain how or why, but I understand the desire to discuss and try to get others to understand, if they don't get you.

 

[Rojodi]

I have a question, but before I ask it, I want to preface that I am asking based solely on personal curiosity, and not to be critical. Since reading this entire thread, and others like it, and given my tendency to pick a subject apart and over-analyze each of the parts without taking the whole into consideration....I'm left to wonder why is it important for a lot of FA to feel like they have to explain their attraction to BBW/SSBBW? It seems especially more so for those attracted to us super-size women.**

Is it because we are considered outside societal norms, or "other"? Is it only because you (FA) have been conditioned that there is something inherently not right about your attraction? And at the risk of sounding sexist, is it just a "guy" thing?

I think I'm tearing it apart, and obviously missing something important amongst the pieces, because it seems foreign to me. I'm not exclusively attracted to one body type, which may be why I'm curious. Have I missed a critical piece of information here? I understand what attracts you all, but I still can't figure out why it's important to define it?

(**By the way, and for the record, the term super-size, even though I use it, makes me cringe inwardly because dammit, I am not a McDonalds hamburger, fries & coke. But that's not really my point here, just another subject rolling around in my muddled brainwaves today.)

Before the internet, I had NO idea there were categories of BBWs, just that some were larger than others. Even when my mother sold lingerie at parties there were no BBW and SSBBWs, just sizes.

 

[Sonic Purity]

I'm left to wonder why is it important for a lot of FA to feel like they have to explain their attraction to BBW/SSBBW? It seems especially more so for those attracted to us super-size women.**

Is it because we are considered outside societal norms,

Check.

or "other"?

Check.

Is it only because you (FA) have been conditioned that there is something inherently not right about your attraction?

Not “only”, but yes this too.

Welcome to the/an other side of societal fat hate and fat shaming. Thankfully all these factors seem lessened in our modern era where there are a lot of publicly visible fat people, many visibly highly intelligent/successful/etc.—harder to casually dismiss, or dismiss at all. From what i’ve read and noticed, the fat shaming is less for fat people and attraction shaming less for FAs (which i use as a non-gendered term).

For those of us who grew up in earlier times, it was far more brutal. Fat people rightfully get the most coverage for this, because existing in a fat body was an inescapable hate magnet 24/7. Admirers with societally-acceptable bodies passed as normal, until anything having to do with their attraction came up, at which point they were susceptible too: stupid, loser, sociopath, insane, secretly gay/lesbian and trying to cover it up (because who would voluntarily date a fat person?!).

I was a young child in the 1960s and tween/teen in the 1970s. The ONLY time fat people were visible was in comedy routines as the butt of jokes. History informs me NAAFA existed in and around NYC from i think ’69, but it was only starting out, there was noting else, and for a younger person in metro Los Angeles not even interested in love, romance, or sexuality, it might as well have not existed.

Society’s media flooded the world with images of “desirable” women to whom Real Men™ had to be attracted. The Tex Avery cartoons with the wolf going into some sort of club and the sexy Wah-wah-wah waaah wah-wah waaaah music with the curtain drawing back and the woman posing on stage whereby the wolf goes nuts and wolf whistles and howls and pounds the table are especially memorable.

I felt nothing from those. I felt nothing from any pictures of women i saw in any media, as well as real women out in the world. For awhile i thought i might be gay, except i wasn’t at all attracted to men either (and everything was binary then—no other possibility). The existence of asexuality as a term seemed still relatively unknown—and of course like other binaries, sex and love were lumped under sex—but i heard or read about it and happily concluded that’s what i was. Family dynamics too long and off-topic to get into here made being an aromantic Highly Rational (Star Trek Mr. Spock-like) being of Science the ultimate goal. I was actually relieved to not have romantic distractions like that poor wolf!

Then came that fateful day when i was a junior in high school, and happened to see the first truly superfat* person i remember seeing—a young woman around my own age! She had to have gone to one of the other high schools in the district, as i’m sure i would have noticed her before.

I’ve written up a whole long so-far-unpublished piece about this event (an apology), so i’m going short on it here.

Within seconds of seeing this amazing and new-to-me body in motion, Hormone Dam Burst! I am very serious: it was like a dam being topped in a flood. All sorts of feelings were coursing through me and overwhelming me. I had no idea what was going on, and i was terrified! Remember: my family was all about rationality, reason, and control. Further: emotions were suspect, not to be trusted. Thoughts and words mattered; feelings had no value and were to be ignored.

For me this was a major trauma event which i pushed so far down into my subconscious that i successfully forgot about it for a number of years thereafter. The trauma wasn’t being attracted to a fat person, it was being so emotionally out of control for any reason.

Forming love bonds with anyone was tough for me, and will drag this thread too far off-topic for me to get much into. Summary: when i did first open up to love, my self-esteem was so low, i didn’t think anyone could love me and i didn’t have a choice in the matter of whom might love me. As much by happenstance as anything else, my first real love, in my senior year of university, was average build from a family of fatties. Inside my mind i felt excited at the prospects, but this was the early 1980s and i still hadn’t encountered any sign that anyone on the planet other than me was attracted to fat people, and i knew i was weird—everyone told me, regularly.

That first romance actually turned into a quasi feedist (really: encourager) situation, which was a whole other level of not knowing was a “thing” for anyone else. Very exciting until it stopped and reversed course. We were both young and immature, and each brought a locomotive to our romantic train wreck, none of which had to do with fatness, or really bodies.

Second-ever love of my life i still didn’t think i had a choice. Bonded with someone else at the radio station. We were highly compatible in terms of music, DJ stuff, and quirky world outlooks/senses of humor, and little else. For two people volunteer working in a communications medium, we were horrible communicators. She was average/slender, and i found it nearly impossible to get physically excited enough to have sex.

It wasn’t until 1993 and seeing this:

​

that i had any idea anyone else was attracted to fat people. Yes, i joined NAAFA. No, i never used their dating service, because that cost money and i had a Macintosh with modem. No, nothing happened at all until 3 years later, because i’m more romantically incompetent than most of you have any idea. Remains true to this day, and it’s literally slow-death killing me.

So it wasn’t until i was in my 30s that i had any idea that anyone else was attracted to fat people, or that such a thing was even “allowed” and not an extremely deviant behavior. Obviously from the SF Weekly cover, the intersection of “fat” and “sexy” was still a novel concept to the general public, and many like me who lacked social connections to anyone already part of the fatosphere.

1996 during my too-brief time working at Apple, fat appreciation in at least some parts of the organization remained joke fodder—which was weird, given the number of beautiful and beautifully fat people (i noticed those presenting as women, but men too) i encountered from my first day. The joke was a gag gift some members of the group got a manager? who was leaving the team for better things. I wasn’t at all a part of it, so i don’t know the setup. I only remember loud talk and laughter and hearing “fat”, which drew my attention. Walked over and those involved (all men, about 3 or 4) were holding a copy of “FAT Extrem, Silwa Special” (there is no e on the end of Extrem), with Teighlor in all her nude corpulent glory on the cover. They treated it as though the magazine was toxic, the way they held it away and kept passing it back and forth like a hot potato.

When the fun was over, it was headed to the trash. That’s when i spoke up.
“May i have that, please?”
I can’t even picture the face of the person, much less their name. He gave me an {Ohhh kaaay, you freak} look, saying something like, “Uh, sure. Are you… actually into this?”
“Yes. Thanks!”
I walked away, the others shaking their heads.

So yeah… this was an attraction that generally needed to be justified, well into the middle 1990s at least. Hence all the wondering where this “different” attraction came from, evidenced in this and many earlier threads across the online fatosphere and likely elsewhere.

And at the risk of sounding sexist, is it just a "guy" thing?

I’m unqualified to answer this. I’ve noticed mixed-gender participation over the years in earlier threads of this nature, biased male. Anyone not assigned male at birth/raised as a boy/man, who’s an FA, care to comment?

I think I'm tearing it apart, and obviously missing something important amongst the pieces, because it seems foreign to me. I'm not exclusively attracted to one body type, which may be why I'm curious. Have I missed a critical piece of information here? I understand what attracts you all, but I still can't figure out why it's important to define it?

Because it’s super-powerful and non-standard (20th. century historically, anyway), is about all i have for a summary. I am attracted to a whole range of body types, as long as they’re fat and (loose definition) femme. The extreme diversity of fat bodies is one aspect of the draw.

(**By the way, and for the record, the term super-size, even though I use it, makes me cringe inwardly because dammit, I am not a McDonalds hamburger, fries & coke. But that's not really my point here, just another subject rolling around in my muddled brainwaves today.)

* I’m with you, Donna, on “supersize” being used for people being/feeling kinda icky inappropriate/dehumanizing. What i’m seeing elsewhere in the online fatosphere is a shift towards smallfat, superfat, and infinifat. Rough equivalence:

Smallfat ≈ BBW/BHM, fat
Superfat ≈ SSBBW/SSBHM, supersize(d)
Infinifat ≈ USBBW/USBHM, ultrasize(d)

It’s unclear to me whether plump/“plumpers” get included in smallfat or not, and i’ve yet to see newer terminology for this lovable, lush category.

Advantage of the new terminology: drops gender.
Disadvantage of the new terminology: tougher to abbreviate. The first two both abbreviate to SF, which for most of the world has one or more very different meanings. SMF and SUF and INF?

Since there seems to be a shift, anyone with superior new terminology may have an opening. I myself don’t have anything better.

****
Since today’s Irrelevant Aside Day, props on your (Donna’s) current avatar pic, which i consider Dangerously Lovable. Hope it’s widely appreciated without drawing unwanted attention to you and your message box.

 

[loopytheone]

Non-male FA chiming in here, as requested. I'm in an interesting position as I'm both fat and an FA attracted to any gender, so I can see things from both perspectives.

I agree with what Sonic is saying in that you are very much made to feel deviant and wrong for finding fat people attractive. Not to mention that, growing up, the narrative I heard from people about FAs was that they were either: a) sick in the head, b) going to force feed you against your will, c) only attracted to the fat and not the person or d) trying to make you 'less attractive' so you couldn't leave/they could control you. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who fit these catergories, because no matter what group you look at, you will always find assholes. But when you spend years of your life being told you are sick/evil/wrong for liking something, you inevitably start questioning if that is true, or why you like the thing. Especially as most of us realise this attraction when we are teens/younger and more suspectible to societal pressure.

Growing up, being fat was seen as a source of shame. You were worth less, and assumed to lack control/self respect etc etc. But FAs were considered twisted, sick individuals that were morally void and explotative/dangerous. It is much easier to hide being an FA than being fat, but it comes with a whole bunch of more intensely nasty assumptions about your morality/mental state. It's only normal that you will go through some deep thinking about yourself as a person and your attractions and such if you are growing up being told you're a terrible person for it.

Honestly, I still have never admitted my FAness to my family, even when they have tried to slyly ask. They would not understand and frankly, it's none of their business. I remember my mother asking outright once, with pure disgust in her voice, whether or not I was some sort of 'sick feeder'. ...because I sent chocolate to my partner at the time, who was a SSBHM (sorry, I know some people don't like those terms but its what works for me). I said no, because she is my mother and I love her and don't want to get into these things with her.

But yeah, I know a huge leap in my mental health happened when I learnt to accept being an FA and that I could be so without being a bad person. It's hard to unlearn all the lessons your family taught you as a child. I still have episodes of guilt about it, even to this day, but they are brief and less intense. But part of the reason I am so passionate about Dims is because this is one of the places that helped me realise, as a teenager, that it was okay to be who I am and that I'm not some sort of terrible person because of it. I lurked here a long time before I was old enough to make an account, and I bet there are some young people now doing the same. And if I can offer them some of the help and understanding people here offered me, then everything I share is worth it.

 

[Donna]

Thank you all for responding to my question without tearing me apart. Even at my advanced age, or as Waldo likes to say, my "mature" age, I think I know all there is to know about size acceptance, FA, and this funny thing called inter-personal relationships, I am reminded that I am far more naive' than I claim.

And Sonic, thank you for the avatar compliment. I guess this one doesn't make me look like a clown?

 

[Sonic Purity]

Non-male FA chiming in here, as requested. I'm in an interesting position as I'm both fat and an FA attracted to any gender, so I can see things from both perspectives.

Thank you so much for your post, loopy! It added significantly to this discussion, with a perspective from several ways of being that few people have.

And Sonic, thank you for the avatar compliment. I guess this one doesn't make me look like a clown?

Not even slightly.

For our Dims peers: i have had the great honor of having extensive private messaging text conversations with Donna these past few weeks. I was sharing with her my raw, unfiltered thoughts regarding a series of her pics, including her avatar pics here. While in some ways pleasant, her avatar picture pic before this one had some disturbing effects in terms of her eyes and eyebrows—at least to my eyes viewed on my usual screen. To me she was suddenly Donna the Scary Clown. Disturbing to look at, and i knew from the honor of seeing her other pics, an anomaly. I am in a position of authority to say that her current avatar pic on 19 April 2022 at 5:36 PM UTC (or 10:36 AM Pacific Time) is not only lovely but representative of Donna as she graces us as part of our community.

 

[Colonial Warrior]

Why we have to explain something as what I feel when I see so much beautifulness before my eyes?

Jaclove87 beautiful ssbbw by computerwiz26 on DeviantArt

jaqlove87 04 by computerwiz26 on DeviantArt

 

[waldo]

Why we have to explain something as what I feel when I see so much beautifulness before my eyes?

View attachment 149328View attachment 149329

OMG!!!!!!!!!!! She is a gorgeous woman!!! Is that your girlfriend or wife?? If so, then..... bloody hell, man!! lucky you
You are right that it really can and probably should be just as simple as what/who we see and respond to positively in terms of being beautiful is what we, as an individual, 'prefer'. I guess that if one were to sum up the phenomenon of the 'fat admirer' it could be pretty effectively done by trotting out that old cliche (I love old cliches by the way) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Nobody is ever going to convince me (short of a lobotomy) that those arms, that belly, that ass, and those thick legs are not so smoking hot and so inherently beautiful. I suppose it is a big part of what makes us vibrant to be able to just appreciate the beauty we see in the world whether it be in other people or any other natural or even man made item (like art work). Yes I am objectifying, but sometimes objectification is just a part of the life experience. It is probably more how you treat that person, whom you are objectifying, that ultimately matters.... Then again, what do I know

 

[waldo]

well if i had to explain in an honest way my attraction to fat women... it would probably be this. even is no one reads i will try to give a comprehensive answer evern if it is just for me. childhood had nothing in particular but... the fact that my mom usually pressed my sisters to be skinny and she herself tried really hard to be skinny all the time. so being chubby and being ok with it felt like a way to rebel to the statuquo which is for me very sexy and has a close taste to freedom and rebelling to the whatever it is supposed to be. now at 10-11-12 years old i began to see my classmates underskirts whenever i could and of course there were some chubby and some skinny ones. and by fat i preferred to see those chubby legs with cellulite and rolls and bellies, the skinny ones make me feel pretty much nothing even do as a kid i used to like a couple of skinny girls.

first few girls i dated and kissed, this around 15years old , i noticed i went after the chub and it was a delicious thing so after noticing my dick reacting to that i decided... what is the point of getting the fit girl and trying to grab some roll here and there? why not try to just get the curvier girl? and it was so, and it was a delicious thing and it was pure pleasure but... i wanted bigger. so at the end the strategy shifted to first look to date the chubby girl and try to make her gain some. because it is hot and erotic to see a lady eat more than what she should according to some dumb doctor and because it is so hot to grab rolls and fat and cellulite... that i feel everyday todaywhat is the point of getting the fit girl and trying to grab some roll here and there? why not try to just get the curvier girl? and it was so, and it was a delicious thing and it was pure pleasure

Well you can rest assured that at least one person read and appreciated your comments!! Maybe that idea of rebelling against societal norms is part of what makes us FAs desire what we do because it is mostly still socially unacceptable (aka FAs are naturally rebels against societal standards). It is like there really are fat people (few but still they are out there), who literally get off on the negative comments and stares, etc. from others. I remember one time being at the state fair and seeing a woman (probably 30 something) sitting on a bench with what appeared to be her husband and several kids all standing close by. She was really fat, like probably 5-600ish pounds. She saw me checking her out VERY closely, and I will never forget the look on her face. She was almost 'beaming' and smiling in a way I still can't wrap my head around to this day (and this was over 15 years ago). I think she was one of those rare people who loved being super fat and actually saw public exposure and people gawking not as a cross to bear but something she got a kick out of....... Then again maybe it was just my imagination...... But yeah no doubt she was a happy fat lady, that part I know - that was no painted on smile!

You really did nail the simple heart of the matter in this section of your post:

"first few girls i dated and kissed, this around 15years old , i noticed i went after the chub and it was a delicious thing so after noticing my dick reacting to that i decided... what is the point of getting the fit girl and trying to grab some roll here and there? why not try to just get the curvier girl? and it was so, and it was a delicious thing and it was pure pleasure"

The point here being your dick was telling you what you liked and desired. That little guy's 'opinion' should not be denied. Yes, men think with our dicks; and while that is normally used as ammunition for denigrating men (in general) as neanderthals, the reality is that we are doing what is natural to us. THe key is in processing our feelings and acting accordingly in a respectful way.

This brings me to the part of the post where you said:
"but... i wanted bigger. so at the end the strategy shifted to first look to date the chubby girl and try to make her gain some. because it is hot and erotic to see a lady eat more than what she should according to some dumb doctor and because it is so hot to grab rolls and fat and cellulite... that i feel everyday today "

Well.... I think you have been around Dims long enough to know that there was a time when that sentiment would have gotten you roasted over the coals by a large number of angry fellow posters, accusing you of being a heartless feeder only in it for your own sexual gratification. I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to say 'try to encourage her to gain some'. See just one word difference (encourage versus make) could really have a huge difference on how it is perceived. Is it still feederism that is manipulative? Yeah, I think so, unless you knew going in that she was into gaining. Are you an anomoly? No, I think you are more of a norm. FAs will marry a smaller BBW and hope she fattens into the SSBBW of their desires. I think it is just a little more 'socially acceptable' than going with someone who is massively fat from day 1. Then you get to 'pretend' yopu are such a great guy who 'stuck by his woman even when she got super fat'. This is what was once referred to as the 'stealth FA effect'. But again, at the end of the day it is more about how you treat your significant other regardless of kinks, and whatever other social constructs get put in your path. Treat people well and good things will usually happen.............

 

[Colonial Warrior]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!! She is a gorgeous woman!!! Is that your girlfriend or wife?? If so, then..... bloody hell, man!! lucky you
You are right that it really can and probably should be just as simple as what/who we see and respond to positively in terms of being beautiful is what we, as an individual, 'prefer'. I guess that if one were to sum up the phenomenon of the 'fat admirer' it could be pretty effectively done by trotting out that old cliche (I love old cliches by the way) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Nobody is ever going to convince me (short of a lobotomy) that those arms, that belly, that ass, and those thick legs are not so smoking hot and so inherently beautiful. I suppose it is a big part of what makes us vibrant to be able to just appreciate the beauty we see in the world whether it be in other people or any other natural or even man made item (like art work). Yes I am objectifying, but sometimes objectification is just a part of the life experience. It is probably more how you treat that person, whom you are objectifying, that ultimately matters.... Then again, what do I know

No!

It's only a model. I don't know too much about her.

I have found those images at DeviantArt!

 

[Sonic Purity]

Maybe that idea of rebelling against societal norms is part of what makes us FAs desire what we do because it is mostly still socially unacceptable (aka FAs are naturally rebels against societal standards).

Don’t know about that—maybe, maybe not—but might make it easier. Not only was i rebelling, but i was already being rejected from mainline society in adolescence. Very used to being a loner with very few friends, so peer pressure wasn’t part of my life. Within the limits most of us had in adolescence, i did whatever the eff i wanted. I was already considered a weird nerd, so there was no downside.

That whole way of being was in place years before my romantic and sexual desires awoke, so years after that awakening when i finally made it to actual fat women, i never had the apparently-common “closeted FA” issue. I was delighted to be with BBW Siber Hussy, whatever we were doing.

It is like there really are fat people (few but still they are out there), who literally get off on the negative comments and stares, etc. from others. I remember one time being at the state fair[…]

Wow—great real-life story! Thanks for sharing that.

Yes, men think with our dicks; and while that is normally used as ammunition for denigrating men (in general) as neanderthals, the reality is that we are doing what is natural to us. THe key is in processing our feelings and acting accordingly in a respectful way.

The woman within me thanks you greatly for confirming i’m not actually a man, despite what my body and DNA tell me, since that’s never been my reality. You’re using common parlance, and i guess no one can fault you for that, but think with dicks? Innate genetic genital response i can go with, but thinking? Women often write about getting wet, but i can’t recall any of them claiming that there was a controlling intelligence down there.

Pleeeeaaase everyone, watch out for the sweeping generalizations, and perhaps qualify with “most” or “a majority” or similar. As i might have already written earlier in this thread, in private messaging middle of last decade, an otherwise-fine fat woman over on Fantasy Feeder tossed me a sweeping generalization so hurtful and callous in the immediate context of what had been a discussion of sensitive topics that i dropped out of that site so long, they deleted my account (and only a year prior i’d been a beta tester for the site redesign, working with the site owner).

You are correct that it is a natural response, and it’s what the penis owner does with that response and the related feelings which makes the difference between a fun, sexy civil society and a toxic, creepy world.

This brings me to the part of the post where you said:
"but... i wanted bigger. so at the end the strategy shifted to first look to date the chubby girl and try to make her gain some.[…]"

Well.... I think you have been around Dims long enough to know that there was a time when that sentiment would have gotten you roasted over the coals by a large number of angry fellow posters, accusing you of being a heartless feeder only in it for your own sexual gratification. I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to say 'try to encourage her to gain some'. See just one word difference (encourage versus make) could really have a huge difference on how it is perceived.

Thank you for making my point above, as well as yours here! I’ll give a pass to “Men respond with our dicks” rather than “think” with them.

Is it still feederism that is manipulative? Yeah, I think so, unless you knew going in that she was into gaining.

tl;dr: I basically agree (other than i use “feedism” rather than “feederism”, which is more letters and centers everything on the feeder rather than making things equal).

Unabridged:
There are so many other threads on feedism that as much as it’s an important topic, please let’s not make this thread one of those, unless feedism was core to your (anyone posting’s) root origin of attraction.

I’ve had a long, winding, challenging personal road with this, and i’m so tired of being Wrong and Judged that it’s really telling me i don’t belong amongst humanity.

Am i a feeder? No, unless i’m with a feedee who by her choice is powerfully driven to fatten. Some actual real people across the gender spectrum have that desire, sometimes (i’ve read) to an overwhelming degree.

The stereotype of a feeder wanting to change a feedee/love interest for the feeder’s tastes/desires without taking into consideration what the person carrying the fat wants stomps one of my NO! buttons hard. To me someone saying, “You know, you’d really [look a lot better | be a lot sexier] if you [gained a little weight | were fatter]” is the mirror image of someone thinking their love interest is getting too fat, maybe saying, “You know, you’re getting a little chunky there. You’d really [look a lot better | be a lot sexier] if you dropped some of the flab.”

Expecting or demanding someone else change their body in any way to suit one’s personal tastes/needs/etc. is FAILING to wholly embrace and love them as they are.

That’s my button: never being good enough/accepted/loved as i am. The outer-societal stereotype of the controlling feeder changing the feedee for the feeder’s desires is basically shouting: “I don’t fully embrace and accept you as you are. I’m going to change you”.

Sure, we have tastes and desires, and we can make requests and likely should be honest about them rather than pretending they don’t exist. So i guess to me it’s a matter of control/demand versus sharing a desire and leaving the other party we desire as the empowered one wholly in control of their own body.

I do like fat, and i do like more of it. Since my body is incapable of that, i have no power to fatten myself up and enjoy fat that way, so i need my fat fix (and yes, it may be an addiction. Feels like a life and death need to me at this point) from other people. I can’t ever demand that—there is no entitlement—so i have to try and make myself lovable and desirable and hope for the best. So far… mmmm… things haven’t been working out.

I’m on Fantasy Feeder (which i consider my home site) and Feabie (don’t especially like it; not there much) because those are two places feedists and those who may not be feedists but who want to get fatter or be part of the lives of others getting fatter go. I get judged less, other than on Feabie where i’m judged because i’m not fat and not getting fatter.

Treat people well and good things will usually happen.............

Until they evolve in their own lives to being asexual and aromantic and as now-ex live-in loves make your life a living hell, looking to the outer world as a couple when grocery shopping together etc. and thinking there’s something wrong with you that as you age you’re not only staying sexual but your drive is increasing and they won’t even hug or cuddle or hold hands any more, yeah. Oh sorry everyone, got into my own stuff, and waldo did write “usually”.

*****
Thanks again to those posting here for taking the time and making the effort to share and discuss. It seems to drift away now and again from my original post, but i guess that’s how real-life discussions go, and i’m certainly dragging things all over the place. So… carry on.