Discussion in 'BHM/FFA' started by michiganbhm, Jul 4, 2012.
Do I really have to go into how logically fallacious that is?
Again, where are YOUR results?
Results can be quantified in many ways. Here's one. I'll be 50 in two weeks. I'm stronger than when I was 18. I can run further (if not faster) than when I was 18. I'm just a little fatter than when I was 18. My blood pressure is still 120/70.
That's not quantified at all. That's conjecture. You see, when someone actually knows what they are doing and cares about results, they measure them. Without the measurements you really can't judge the effectiveness of what you are doing.
Depending on what your goals are, before you start a program you can test your one rep max on the main lifts, test your rep max with specific weights on different lifts, measure weight, waist, arms, legs, chest and body fat percentages, resting heart rate, VO2 max, lactate threshold, time a 40 yard sprint, 100 yard sprint, mile run, 3 mile run, standing long jump, vertical jump, timed conditioning circuit, kettlebell snatch test, etc. Then at the end of 6-8 week program, measure them all, or just the ones your program is focused on, to actually quantify the effects of the program. Make an adjustment to your program, then test again at the end of another 6-8weeks. Now you have quantifiable data to show whether your changes helped or not. Although novices should probably stick with one program for at least 6 months before changing things up. Maybe just change up nutrition at the 8 week marks to see how that affects things.
Having never done that with yourself or anyone else, you have no idea what is actually effective and what isn't. You are just making shit up based on internet articles that fit with what you already believe. Ones that match up nicely with the excuses you make.
And you do realize Mike Mentzer was coke addict and pill popper?
OK, guys -- can you please cool it on the argument here? Maybe agree to disagree, and accept that OMG SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET IS WRONG! (at least to your way of seeing it).
I can see value in this thread for people looking for support or advice, or even to quietly brag about successes. But an ongoing argument where both sides are dug in only serves to drive away everyone who isn't involved in the argument.
To be clear, this is a plea, not an order. I'm not threatening moderator action or anything like that. If continuing the argument is important to you, then by all means keep waging it :blink:
I'm not wedded to any one type of training. Indeed I believe the best exercise advice is to find activities you enjoy and as Nike says "just do it." There are indeed many paths to physical fitness (and indeed many definitions of physical fitness). However, there are certain exercise regimes and diets that are dangerous.
The ironic thing is that I actually agree with Geo regarding many issues. The problem is that he takes things to dangerous extremes.
I agree with Geo that diets don't work and that dietary fat is not the enemy. However, unless you're a world class athlete there's no rational reason to consume more that four, or maybe five, thousand calories a day.
I agree with Geo that high intensity weight training should be a part of any fitness plan. However, heavy weight low rep training, while great for competitive powerlifters, is a fast track to serious injury for ordinary people.
I agree with Geo regarding commitment to plans and goals -- no one ever accomplished anything lying on the sofa all day. However, I favor flexible plans and practical goals. I go to the gym and get up before dawn to run not as ends in themselves but to facilitate my ability to enjoy life. I enjoy being able to do things with my wife and kids.
Certain types of people love data. They confuse the collection of reams of data with scientific inquiry and statistics with understanding. Someone who "actually knows what they are doing" is someone who understands which measurements provide useful information and which are of marginal, if any, relevance.
I actually have on many occasions been measured and done the measuring. Several of my physiology classes required extensive lab work. In exercise physiology us students served as each others guinea pigs. I also served as a human test subject in metabolic experiments relating to non-shivering thermogenisis (for experiments the Richardson Ground Squirrels refused to participate in). As a soldier I was measured every which way. I know what the fuck I'm doing -- I understand the scientific method -- I have a decent grasp of human physiology -- I also understand the limits of our present knowledge. I'm not making anything up.
For ordinary people, who are not competitive athletes seeking to extra tenth of a second or extra inch or two, the quantitative measurements you suggest are a waste of time. If you're in tune with your body you know when you've had a good workout, you know if you're stronger than you were six months ago, you notice when the jeans that used to be tight start fitting better, and you notice when the person in the mirror looks better.
I really haven't been trying to lose weight, but over the past 20 years I've lost over 170 pounds; tipping the scales at 500. I lost 70 by 2000, and 100 since then. Mostly a culmination of stress, being poor, or moving a lot over the course of the years. Then of course is my family belittling me because I eat too much and making me feel bad because I eat at all. Food really isn't a priority for me but I don't really crave to be thin. I don't care what I weigh really if I'm fat or thin.
Sorry the weight loss has been do to so many negative things, but I'd imagine that on the upside it must be making daily life easier for you?
Anyway, I hope life will be turning around soon and giving you happier circumstances. Sounds like it has been one heck of a rough stretch (and also: that you need to find a way to get some distance from your family--nobody deserves that sort of treatment!)
Well certainly, I breathe a lot better and my stamina and endurance got better without me noticing. Like I can stand for more than 5 minutes, so almost 30 minutes more if I have to; like waiting in line in an office.
Actually, I live with some family so that's a cross I have to bear. Hopefully in 4 years I can move in with my brother in New York, but I can't at the moment since his place is so small and there's no room for me right now.
Haven't posted in awhile, but I went from 310 to 196
Would hardly believe you'd been a BHM. Was this deliberate, or the result of illness, or....?? Curious minds want to know!
It was deliberate! Started losing weight quickly from just counting calories and walking. Then it kinda snowballed into running and now I can go 4-5 miles without stopping to walk. Hard to believe I could only waddle at like 3 mph for 30 minutes at a time last year lol.
I bought a bike at a yard sale on a lark today and I'm planning a short ride this evening after it cools off a little. I'm easily way over the manufacturer's stated weight limit so I predict one of us is coming back wrecked.
Hello everyone! Been a busy 9 months for me but have now moved to Sydney, Australia and been working out, running and sticking to a keto diet! Have dropped 90lbs now!
If you want to diet go ahead it's your body. I felt I needed to make some changes in my life!
Can't rep you, or I would.
It's been over a year now since I discovered Ketogenic diet (high fat, moderate protein, low carb). I had very good results to start with, and lost around 45lbs when I was carefully tracking the nutrition. After a few months, I suppose the novelty of the diet wore off, the weight loss slowed and more carbs started to creep into daily eating.
What I've noticed is that I have to REALLY keep the carbs as low as possible otherwise I gain. Simple as that. Earlier this year, again I began to 'drift' from keto diet, overdid the carbs and somehow managed to pile on a lot of the weight very quickly and break 400lb which is a good 35lb heavier than I was last year. I am amazed how quickly the weight comes back. To me, there seems to be a multiplier effect with carbs and fat, energy wise.
Right now, I'm now hovering around 380lb and have been experimenting with very low carb again. It's almost as though there is a weight loss switch inside us, and cutting carbs, while keeping up the food intake, turns it on for a bit regardless of activity level. However, keeping to that same low carb diet for a while I seem to plateau after a few weeks.
Someone in this thread commented that the problem is fat people are lazy, and i have to agree. Well, I know for me, this is true. If I was more active, the carbs which I do end up eating wouldn't be so problematic. I do find lifestyle change is harder than diet. I found when I had lost 40lbs, I was naturally beginning to become more active, I strangely had more energy, and that is the time to slowly introduce more physical activity, something enjoyable like short walk, or cycling. We should all be moving more, easier said than done!
I think if anyone is interested in losing weight, first read up, learn the science behind ketogenic diet. There is no point being a gym bunny without first learning about nutrition and fixing the diet. For a good start, I recommend "Why We Get Fat" book by Gary Taubes. Read up, learn, act, share & good luck ;-)
The foregoing post illustrates one of the main reasons fad diets (including low-carb) don't work. People just cannot stay on them.
Also, while a person doesn't need to be a "gym bunny" to loose weight, an active lifestyle is essential for long-term weight loss.
And, people need to realize that so called diet experts really don't have a clue. Dietary science is a field pretty much defined by what is not known and/or understood.
You have no clue what you're talking about. Low carb has been around for a long time, so I'd say it's more than just a fad. People can stay on them as I've personally seen it. I like to switch up my diets because otherwise I'd get bored. I'd go to low carb, calorie counting, paleo, and then back to low carb, etc etc. I find it's much easier to diet that way by switching up. That way you don't get tired of eating the same type of food everyday.
Dieting makes you lose weight, exercise makes you look good naked. Weight loss is simple, it's basically calories in, calories out.
I'm not even going to touch about you claiming dietary science is unknown. That's just asinine. The bottom line is if you don't put work into losing weight than no diet will work. Dieting works if you work it. It's as simple as that.
Well as much as you can bash diets, I've learned going low carb REALLY reduces that constant desire to eat. In eating more fat & protein, you can reduce the hunger which makes us over-eat. The food is more nutritious, blood sugar is kept under control and of course over time you eat less and lose weight. I feel at last in control of my weight, providing I keep the carbs right down.
I always wondered how some people can not be fussed about eating and have no appetite whatsoever while others like me never feel full and are pretty much always hungry, thinking about the next meal and ready to eat. It's all about the body craving the next sugar spike, essentially we're addicts.
For those who can't walk far or get on a bike, this simple bearable change in diet will provide the weight loss to the point that they hopefully can. The weight loss, will enable them to do more physically to the point of making exercise/lifestyle change more likely.
Of course, changing both lifestyle and diet is optimal. Exercise and keeping active helps control blood sugar along with low carb. i just feel for me, fixing the diet first is the way to go. I've always been a healthy eater, but wow, going low carb and pushing up the protein+fat intake works for me.... as long as I keep to very low carb.
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