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Yakatori

Hard to say, really...
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"...I feel like an outsider, but I also feel I can be more objective."
Yeah, yeah, me too.

"...they're feeling their way around here themselves, tweaking the site to more represent their business model.... don't have a horse in the race, they aren't fat activists or in the BBW porn business, or even run fat social events, so this is as new to them as they are to "us"
Right. But, in that respect, I don't think it necessarily hurts for people to voice concerns, talk about what they like or don't like. In the end, it's all valuable input.

So far, it looks mostly like a question of formatting: People are basically comfortable with the idea of web-model participation (practically, as a good number of the most active & long-term participants have done some web-modeling). But, by having BOTH an explicit/uncensored PaySite Folder in addition to a regular, existing Paysite Folder and the way how threads/topics are organized by recent updates, this contributes to a general facade which seems to define (circumscribe) & speak-for the remainder of the community in way that's inconsistent with the rest of its values.

Am I even close?

..have in desperation had to make up this new account to alert someone....still can't work out why I cant log on as Im sure I had my name and password properly but my registered email is inactive now....Anyway, if Im not back with my own name in a couple of days here to post and confirm, could someone pls poke .. someone...Thanks!
I recognize your handle, but you didn't specify the precise difference between this and your old screen-name. So, how does the Admin even know who you are (just based on this thread)?

"Anyone know who changed the thread title, 'cause it wasn't me..."
Duh...New Admin obviously a huge Bowie fan:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3vxEudif8[/ame]
 

RubyRipples

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Just spent ten minutes making a post and it hasnt posted. :confused:

@ Yakatori,

I've been a member of Dimensions almost eleven years since April 2004, several of those as a supporting member. I've made thousands of posts on the fora and made dozens of friends in chat when it was busy. Based on that alone, I know that the mods know me, even if the new site owner doesn't. I actually DID specify my correct username in the pm that I sent to them directly originally, and one quick search of the member list will show the difference even if they didn't know. The only difference between that name and this is that I have a space between the Ruby and Ripples in my "real" account. If the mods are the same people they used to be, then I think they all know me too.

Real account - http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/member.php?u=4294
 
Last edited:

Tad

Dimensions' loiterer
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The great white north, eh?
Just spent ten minutes making a post and it hasnt posted. :confused:

@ Yakatori,

I've been a member of Dimensions almost eleven years since April 2004, several of those as a supporting member. I've made thousands of posts on the fora and made dozens of friends in chat when it was busy. Based on that alone, I know that the mods know me, even if the new site owner doesn't. I actually DID specify my correct username in the pm that I sent to them directly originally, and one quick search of the member list will show the difference even if they didn't know. The only difference between that name and this is that I have a space between the Ruby and Ripples in my "real" account. If the mods are the same people they used to be, then I think they all know me too.
Ruby: perhaps ironically, your first try at this post got flagged for moderator approval, as happens occasionally for new posters.

Moderators don’t have the tools to re-set passwords or the like, so I’m afraid that is something that will take Admin action to fix.
 

CleverBomb

On Space Out
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Right. But, in that respect, I don't think it necessarily hurts for people to voice concerns, talk about what they like or don't like. In the end, it's all valuable input.

So far, it looks mostly like a question of formatting: People are basically comfortable with the idea of web-model participation (practically, as a good number of the most active & long-term participants have done some web-modeling). But, by having BOTH an explicit/uncensored PaySite Folder in addition to a regular, existing Paysite Folder and the way how threads/topics are organized by recent updates, this contributes to a general facade which seems to define (circumscribe) & speak-for the remainder of the community in way that's inconsistent with the rest of its values.
I've wanted to engage the subject of the bolded part of your comment for a few days now, so thank you for providing a jumping-off point.

One thing that's troubled me about the handling (deletion) of the previous thread on this topic was that it silenced some of the concerns held by a significant part of the community, thereby glossing over the distinction between the context provided by previous rules and that of the current ones. And the latter point holds for the exposure of the legacy Clubhouse board contents as well.

That is, the expected audience when the previous content was posted is different than the currently expected audience, because the screening factors have changed. For the boards in general, the old rules meant that visitors seeking graphic nudity would quickly move on to sites where that was available, because it wasn't available on this site as such. It was a subtle screen, but it had a noticeable effect -- it felt, and to some extent actually was, a "safer" conversational space than at sites with more permissive content policies. And for the Clubhouse, access was limited to people who had directly contributed to the site's upkeep over and above just providing ad views and clicks.

It's probably fair to say that some of the legacy posts on the forums would not have been made (and indeed, that some posters might not have participated here at all) if the current rules had been in place at the time. However, the lack of a clear demarcation between the older and current posts creates the impression that all of the posts were made by people who were expecting them to be read by the site's current and expected audience, one without those audience-screening factors. The, "hey, what's going on here?" discussion was (and in this thread, perhaps still is) a visible indication of that demarcation, since the addition of the uncensored paysite forum didn't provide any discussion of the change's implications; that discussion happened in the thread about the rep system glitches and was deleted along with it.

Yakitori, the distinction I'm making with your post is that while you're discussing the characterization of the current posting community -- which is a very important issue, and I completely agree with your take on it -- I'm focusing on the implicit re-characterization of the community's past 9 years of posts.
 

superodalisque

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I've wanted to engage the subject of the bolded part of your comment for a few days now, so thank you for providing a jumping-off point.

One thing that's troubled me about the handling (deletion) of the previous thread on this topic was that it silenced some of the concerns held by a significant part of the community, thereby glossing over the distinction between the context provided by previous rules and that of the current ones. And the latter point holds for the exposure of the legacy Clubhouse board contents as well.

That is, the expected audience when the previous content was posted is different than the currently expected audience, because the screening factors have changed. For the boards in general, the old rules meant that visitors seeking graphic nudity would quickly move on to sites where that was available, because it wasn't available on this site as such. It was a subtle screen, but it had a noticeable effect -- it felt, and to some extent actually was, a "safer" conversational space than at sites with more permissive content policies. And for the Clubhouse, access was limited to people who had directly contributed to the site's upkeep over and above just providing ad views and clicks.

It's probably fair to say that some of the legacy posts on the forums would not have been made (and indeed, that some posters might not have participated here at all) if the current rules had been in place at the time. However, the lack of a clear demarcation between the older and current posts creates the impression that all of the posts were made by people who were expecting them to be read by the site's current and expected audience, one without those audience-screening factors. The, "hey, what's going on here?" discussion was (and in this thread, perhaps still is) a visible indication of that demarcation, since the addition of the uncensored paysite forum didn't provide any discussion of the change's implications; that discussion happened in the thread about the rep system glitches and was deleted along with it.

Yakitori, the distinction I'm making with your post is that while you're discussing the characterization of the current posting community -- which is a very important issue, and I completely agree with your take on it -- I'm focusing on the implicit re-characterization of the community's past 9 years of posts.

which is often what a lot of us were always trying to get people to see -- that the context would not always be the same. and people should have understood that every post should be written in a way that it can be taken in isolation and pretty much stand on it's own in any space. the assumption that the site would always be controlled by the same people and administered in the same way is the real problem. now that things are changing people want to blame the new admin etc... but the truth is when you put something out there you can't control the context or how people look at it. so people had better make sure before they post something that it's something they can bear anyone seeing in any circumstance.

there was always a lot of moaning and groaning from many corners when people were asking for things to be more SA centered when they saw the direction the wind was blowing in. over the years it had always gotten farther and farther away from evolving fat politics and focusing more and more on somebody's crotch or profit. well, now it isn't even a pretense and this is what happens. but that can't be blamed on the admins. it was tolerated and celebrated for a long time before that situation ever changed. people gave all of their power away to that fantasy crowd that spoke with such certainty about absolutely everything. so now when people come in and ask where the real 500lb women you don't have to pay have gone, the answer is somewhere they get at least some respect and are not openly treated like free sex workers. people felt a long time ago that they couldn't trust the situation and tried the best they could to remove as many things, including themselves, that they no longer wanted here . it didn't take a new admin for that to happen.
 

CleverBomb

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The thing is, there was a good-faith assumption that it would always be controlled by the same people and managed in the same way, in large part because it was quite visibly owned and operated by someone who had an established reputation both here and in the real world SA community. Whatever anyone thought of Conrad, they knew who he was.

I recall several discussions (usually prompted by the chat going offline for extended periods) about what the community would or should do if the site went away. I also recall a few about how to keep the site going as-was if Conrad retired from running it. I do not recall any discussion whatsoever anticipating the implications of transferring ownership to someone with a different vision for the site, because I don't think the possibility occurred to anyone (or almost anyone) before it happened.

Yes, the Internet Never Forgets, and yes, anything can be removed from its initial context. That said, I don't think anyone expected (and few even considered the possibility) that the forum itself would be re-contexted as a whole.
 

superodalisque

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The thing is, there was a good-faith assumption that it would always be controlled by the same people and managed in the same way, in large part because it was quite visibly owned and operated by someone who had an established reputation both here and in the real world SA community. Whatever anyone thought of Conrad, they knew who he was.

I recall several discussions (usually prompted by the chat going offline for extended periods) about what the community would or should do if the site went away. I also recall a few about how to keep the site going as-was if Conrad retired from running it. I do not recall any discussion whatsoever anticipating the implications of transferring ownership to someone with a different vision for the site, because I don't think the possibility occurred to anyone (or almost anyone) before it happened.

Yes, the Internet Never Forgets, and yes, anything can be removed from its initial context. That said, I don't think anyone expected (and few even considered the possibility) that the forum itself would be re-contexted as a whole.
not assuming that would be pretty naïve. people not only retire, they have accidents they die and so do the people around them. people go bankrupt. all kinds of unforeseen things happen. also your own personal ideas might change about what you want the more you know about a situation. by the time you find out what's really behind a lot of stuff it might be too late.

and as I mentioned before, the change in what people were willing to trust to the site had already happened many years ago. blaming the new admin for where it has ended up isn't the whole story. it was going down this road anyway. the changes that might seem drastic to many are pretty predictable. it goes right along from the term BBW evolving from being a politically empowering and even feminist to being basically just another porn term. that is the legacy we're dealing with here.
 

tonynyc

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This may sound rough, the www is free for both the owners and the users of websites. Frustrating what's going on with the forums, but the owner can do what he wants in his house. ;) Nobody is forced to enter his house. ;)
As a long-term user all what I can say is, thank you Conrad for your good work.:)
Pretty much this - not only is the site free and it is true that the new owners can pretty much make any "changes"-but, there are ramifications to what is done.

In addition- no one is forced to enter any Forum that is not their "cup of Tea" it's not like you have a situation like this....



In addition, another problem is that you go from -Conrad to the current Admin... In one side of the spectrum you go from having a good deal of knowledge to someone who is just running things "behind the scenes"....


This is a thread for those who are bothered and wish to air their concerns.


Aside from the fact there are very few places that offer what Dims did that don't focus on the porn, and that you have no freaking clue what people do or don't do, even if they post about it, comments like these are unnecessary when people have legitimate reasons to be concerned. There's a big difference between a site and a community. Any ol' webpage can become a site or forum, but it's the people that make it a community. When you start treating the people like they don't matter, change the rules and leadership behind the scenes and tell people to stfu about it, you've got to expect people to speak up.

You may be fine with how things have changed around here, but that doesn't mean everyone else is or that they should be. Let us air our concerns.
True and as far as the "adult" sites in the Dims Board- It is pretty tame as opposed to what is out there.

I guess it depends on which boards you frequent. If you rarely made it out of the paysite board, then I can understand why you'd think so. Plenty of others have felt that sense of community and have developed friendship and relationships here.


We're no longer valued, that is clear. It's certainly not the way to encourage us to donate money.

I highlighted your statement because your Dims experience can pretty much be which Boards one is comfortable in taking part in - nothing is being forced down anyone's throat...

A couple of points.

There isn't much known about the new owner(s), except for the fact that they seem to be invested in websites much like this one, though quite varied in interest. I'm sure they're feeling their way around here themselves, tweaking the site to more represent their business model. Seems obvious that they don't have a horse in the race, they aren't fat activists or in the BBW porn business, or even run fat social events, so this is as new to them as they are to "us" (and really if you look around these days, how much of an us is really left?)

I may be in a minority here when I say this, but I saw far more cleansing of threads and posts prior to the new owners taking over. I'm not going to say the old owner was responsible, but I saw more posts deliberately edited/removed during the 4-5 years prior that I began to post infrequently and only come back on occasion. With so many new faces, and so many old friends gone from here, I feel like an outsider, but I also feel I can be more objective.

Again my opinion, but I think the more recent changes are the result of tweaking the board to see what they have & if they're guilty of anything, it's simply not communicating those attempts at changing to the regular posters.

Around 2007, I joined a website called BBW Chat Zone. Similar site to Dims, without the Paysite Board. Over the years, the owner of that site became ill, and for the past few years, the mods have essentially run the boards. If any of you think Dimensions has gone downhill, take a trip over to this website, and you'll have a new found sense of appreciation.

Hopefully everyone involved will let this play out before they jump the gun and bail out of here.
Yes, it will be interesting to see how this plays out- good point
 

superodalisque

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True and as far as the "adult" sites in the Dims Board- It is pretty tame as opposed to what is out there.

I highlighted your statement because your Dims experience can pretty much be which Boards one is comfortable in taking part in - nothing is being forced down anyone's throat...

some aspects of the boards are fairly tame unless you start reading in the library where degrading, exploding, or torturing people with the "horror" of being fat is okay and in the past where even aspects of pedophila popped up.

nope, you are absolutely right. nothing is forced down anyone's throat, which is why a lot of people are not posting much in the way of photos as they once were unless covered basically from neck to ankle like they generally do out in the general public or unless they are a sex worker.

so what do you end up having? a watered down fat porn site where it's the same old website come on as everywhere else where potential paying members are? how unique or marketable is that really ? the stuff that made it unique interesting and different have been smothered and forced out. they asked for it and they got it.
 

Marlayna

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Personally, the only difference that I see, is that posting is down (is there a "boycott" or something?), and that people who aren't offended by fat-girl nipples, have the prerogative of seeing them or not.
I wish Conrad, our former Chief, was still here, but things change, and nothing stays the same. The new Administrator isn't hands-on, but I belong to boards where that's the same case, so I'm used to it.
We still have moderators, and that's what's important to me.
 

superodalisque

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Personally, the only difference that I see, is that posting is down (is there a "boycott" or something?), and that people who aren't offended by fat-girl nipples, have the prerogative of seeing them or not.
I wish Conrad, our former Chief, was still here, but things change, and nothing stays the same. The new Administrator isn't hands-on, but I belong to boards where that's the same case, so I'm used to it.
We still have moderators, and that's what's important to me.
people here both male and female have generally always thought fat nudity was beautiful. it's what has been allowed to come along even before that that people have gotten tired of.

so when a place exposes people to negativity that they feel is not so different from fat prejudice they move on to where they feel wanted as a human being.

personally, as far as the forums go, actually don't mind being treated like an adult and not having my thoughts micro managed and getting banned kicked out or sanctioned for stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with any forum rules whatsoever. I don't know if so many people actually left as were forced out or banned.

people asking for acceptance and tolerance might actually get to practice using some of that themselves in the situation now where people don't bring so much of their personal opinions into moderating or administrating. nice change actually if that ends up being true.
 

penguin

Fnord
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It's a bit like going out every Friday to the local bar/pub for a casual dinner with friends. You like to sit out on the deck, have a good meal, a few drinks, and catch up with friends. You might meet a few new people who are out there dining as well, or your friends might bring along some of their friends. The crowd isn't always the same, but that's a good thing. You can sit there for a few hours eating, drinking, talking, laughing, and it feels good. The staff know you by name, they know what drink you like, and you enjoy your time there.

You know there are other parts to the bar, the main bar area with the sports channels, the pool tables around the other side, but you don't usually go there. You might pop your head in every now and then to see who's there and what's happening, but you've got your preferred spot and you're happy there.

Then one day the bar's owner unexpectedly sells it to someone who's owned a couple of shops before, but never a bar. It's unexpected, because you've seen the owner around a lot, had a few drinks with him, and have gotten to know him. He didn't say a word to you or to the staff. He might have said something to the managers, but they're not saying. They didn't have a team meeting to let everyone know about the changes, they were just in place. They turned up to work on Monday to find a new boss with new rules, and lots of changes.

Little things at first, like the price of drinks went up a little - not a lot, but a noticeable amount. The pool tables were taken away and a stage was put up, "for live music" you were told, but that didn't explain the pole. The set up slowly changed, but without any firm word. It started to not feel as comfortable as it used to. The staff weren't unfriendly, but they were obviously uncertain and on edge, which the customers picked up on. When asked what was going on, there was no answer.

Then you find out that what was the pool room now has strippers. There's nothing wrong with strippers, in fact, you like them and have gone to a few clubs yourself. But now there's a very different clientele coming in, ones coming just to see the strippers, folks who seem to believe that everyone else is there for the same reason. The tone has changed. Even though your little area out on the deck might not have been affected directly, apart from drinks costing more and the staff being standoffish, it's not the great place it used to be.

Sure, change happens, it's a part of life. But when your favourite Friday night hangout suddenly changes from a friendly bar to a pseudo-strip joint, it's unnerving. If you wanted to go to a strip joint, you would, right? If you wanted to go out to dinner and hang out with friends, you'd come here. But here no longer feels comfortable. You're not sure if you'll come in next time to find the wait staff are suddenly topless. Again, that's not a bad thing in general, but it's not why you come here or what you expect. It's like the new owner wanted to run a strip club but didn't want to take over an existing one or start one from scratch. They wanted to find an established bar and change it until it matched their vision, not caring about the established clientele and how that could damage their profits, or how it would affect the staff. Staff who have gone from working in a bar to working in a strip club overnight. There's an influx of people who come in just to see the naked ladies, who behave in ways that wouldn't be acceptable before.

This isn't about "lol, change happens, suck it up or shut up." It's about taking an established community and forcing it to become something else. The tone changes. The expectation changes. We're allowed to be unhappy about it, and it doesn't mean we need to "get a life" (which is a horribly condescending and arrogant attitude).
 

Marlayna

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Everyone knows there's nipples at the end of fatty-girl tits, I don't see where the whole tone of the place is like a strip joint. Sorry.:rolleyes:
If my favorite hang-out replaced the pool table with a stripper pole, I would go with the flow... but that's me. I don't think the perv factor went up here, at all.
Personally, my breasts are very nice, but I don't have a need to post pics of them on the internet... but again, that's just me.;)http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
 

Marlayna

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people here both male and female have generally always thought fat nudity was beautiful. it's what has been allowed to come along even before that that people have gotten tired of.

so when a place exposes people to negativity that they feel is not so different from fat prejudice they move on to where they feel wanted as a human being.

personally, as far as the forums go, actually don't mind being treated like an adult and not having my thoughts micro managed and getting banned kicked out or sanctioned for stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with any forum rules whatsoever. I don't know if so many people actually left as were forced out or banned.

people asking for acceptance and tolerance might actually get to practice using some of that themselves in the situation now where people don't bring so much of their personal opinions into moderating or administrating. nice change actually if that ends up being true.
I didn't realize anyone was forced out or banned, but maybe it's because I stay out of the political threads. I don't like to raise my blood pressure unnecessarily.:eek:
I don't get the part about exposure to negativity. What do you mean?
 

superodalisque

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I didn't realize anyone was forced out or banned, but maybe it's because I stay out of the political threads. I don't like to raise my blood pressure unnecessarily.:eek:
I don't get the part about exposure to negativity. What do you mean?
quite a number of regular posters who are now very active and prolific elsewhere were perma banned. it wasn't because of anything in hyde park if that is what you mean. there was banning from the old defunct ssbbw forum without any cause at all. a lot of people who were ssbbws didn't even know it existed. people had to be invited. and often they were questioned a lot as well. a lot of women who were ssbbw were never invited at all. then people wondered why with this secret forum there were hardly any visible ssbbws at all.

you could be kicked out because you were supposed to be anti FA if you even talked about any questionable male behavior in the community that needed to be cleared up in order that everyone not look bad.

people were forced out for being LGBT and challenging ideas regarding that issue. men were kicked out for pushing BHM issues re: fat politics. you would think this would be the place for that. so now people who had a fat political view are gone to other places. all of the vibrant meaningful discussions left and went elsewhere.

no wonder there are hardly any more posters. who is really left to ?

it has actually gotten better lately in that way since the official micro managing of what people have to say has been somewhat reduced but i'm afraid the big damage has already been done. a lot of the banning etc... happened pretty much before or just as you got here. you probably never saw it at it's most active which is a shame. you would have really enjoyed it. even chat was very busy all day long. people used to keep it up at work etc...

I honestly think the new admin should reinvite these people. some already have been but I don't know if they are really willing anymore. because it isn't entirely so much about what admins or mods actually did it's what some of the other members went along with and supported. I think they violated too much trust.
 

penguin

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Everyone knows there's nipples at the end of fatty-girl tits, I don't see where the whole tone of the place is like a strip joint. Sorry.:rolleyes:
If my favorite hang-out replaced the pool table with a stripper pole, I would go with the flow... but that's me. I don't think the perv factor went up here, at all.
Personally, my breasts are very nice, but I don't have a need to post pics of them on the internet... but again, that's just me.;)http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
You might be fine with how things are, great. That doesn't mean that others are. This thread is about those who are unhappy with the changes and are wishing to have a dialogue with the new owner, so there's no need to roll your eyes at us because we're not comfortable with how things have been handled.

You shown that you're hypocritical about loving the paysite boards while looking down on those who post photos elsewhere on Dims. There's no reason to shit on those who do want to share their photos. It doesn't matter why they're posting them, whether it's to boost their self esteem, to try to feel good about themselves, or because they genuinely enjoy it. If you don't want to respect those that do, fine, but keep it to yourself because your hypocrisy is nauseating.
 

superodalisque

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You might be fine with how things are, great. That doesn't mean that others are. This thread is about those who are unhappy with the changes and are wishing to have a dialogue with the new owner, so there's no need to roll your eyes at us because we're not comfortable with how things have been handled.

You shown that you're hypocritical about loving the paysite boards while looking down on those who post photos elsewhere on Dims. There's no reason to shit on those who do want to share their photos. It doesn't matter why they're posting them, whether it's to boost their self esteem, to try to feel good about themselves, or because they genuinely enjoy it. If you don't want to respect those that do, fine, but keep it to yourself because your hypocrisy is nauseating.
I don't think she should have to keep anything to herself on a forum if she doesn't think it's a good idea. if people had paid more attention to her they might not be desperately scrambling now to get things removed. paysite people know exactly what they are getting into and why. some of the people who might just now be figuring out that they are even sexually viable might not and may need a heads up.

don't like her opinion . don't look.

I like the way this forum might force a few more people to behave like actual adults -- for a change. sometimes spewing constant immature hate speech is also nauseating just because another person happens to have a different opinion.

btw: I love the way that people actually have to sign I now. that will help a lot of things as well.
 

penguin

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I don't think she should have to keep anything to herself on a forum if she doesn't think it's a good idea. if people had paid more attention to her they might not be desperately scrambling now to get things removed. paysite people know exactly what they are getting into and why. some of the people who might just now be figuring out that they are even sexually viable might not.
There is a difference between expressing a differing opinion and discussing an idea, and telling people they're essentially stupid because they do things she doesn't.

I won't speak for anyone else in regards to removing photos from the site. I did it because I felt that how the ownership change was handled and how the other changes were implemented showed that we are no longer being treated as valued members of a community, but instead are viewed as nothing more than page clicks and cash.

I chose to remove my photos and to stop sharing them because it now feels like this place is about pushing porn, which brings in a different group of people. I joined Dims because I was looking for acceptance and understanding, and found people who knew what I was going through and showed me that I could get there, too. Porn is great in general, but it has it's place. I had no issue with the old paysite board. I have an issue with what has happened, and I can see Dims is going in a direction with which I'm not comfortable.

don't like her opinion . don't look.
I don't put people on ignore. I read the threads I'm involved in. She should be allowed to post irrelevant and condescending attitudes, but I'm the one who should look away?
 

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