"All the nice girls love a bastard!"

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joswitch

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Yep, thats because most people read a "Nice Guy" as being false or worse. You can have nice guy qualities, and Bastard qualities, but if you if you have to much of either your probably just not any-good for anybody.

Like I said, to some I've been the bastard. I've also been the "nice guy". I've been the emotional tampon to soak up the mess left behind by some jerk that really didn't give a damn. Out of all of them I know which one left me feeling just fine about myself and got me everything I wanted in life without compromising my values. I know which one made me feel like the looser in a race I was always last in. I also know which one never got me to the place I really wanted to go. The simple fact was 90% of the time the guy calling me a bastard was the one who felt like he lost something when really he didn't have a huge chance to get in the first place.

I've never had any ex call me a bastard or been so unattracted she never wanted to see me again. So I couldn't have been so bad I was beyond reproach or forgiveness could I have? I've only had other guys call me "The Bastard". These are the same guys that can never see someone winning a game via skill, but instead call it "pure luck". These are the same guys that don't see other men of quality, worthy competitors that test their steel. I know because like I said, I used to be one of those guys.

Now days I have a very different view of "The bastard's". Now I see the guy that uses his quick wit in a conversation as someone on my level. I see the guy who try's to bump me out of the conversation often as a the the guy now giving me an opportunity to display my own personality and awareness of social dynamics and create the attraction I'm looking for.

Well here, this link shows exactly what I'm talking about.

All life is subjective to the point you are looking at it from and that view changes from moment to moment, and experience to experience. Hell in 20 more years I might think very differently about all this...maybe not, but what do I know, I got 20 more years till I can tell you about it :p
Good link, although I'd've said the fella that Matt Damon's character was debating wasn't so much a bastard... more of a knobhead...:p:D certainly Matt Damon showed the successful, ruthless bastard right there tho'...:D

Oh just btw, slightly at a tangent to the thread - here's a link to an odd little comic about the Nice Guy vs. the "Nice Guy"... from one chick's POV anyhow...
http://www.gurl.com/showoff/comix/pages/0,,714667-2,00.html
 

joswitch

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It's actually happened twice; a few days after I told said girls what a bastard said bastard was.

First one was a crush. Second was a recent ex. I thought she actually did it to spite me but they're still together so I wonder. In both cases, the bastards were compulsive cheaters.
Why would women want a bloke who cheats? ....

Evolutionary theory says it's cos his genes make him attractive to women.
And if the woman in question is able to pass those genes on to a son - who can potentially father thousands, in contrast with a daughter who can maybe mother a dozen or so - then her genes will be spread more widely.
That's the ("sexy son") theory anyway... and there's some supporting evidence....
http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/issues-ideas/catherine-nixey/whos-daddy

Of course natural selection doesn't select for "happy"... Just for "having many offspring"....
 

KittyKitten

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Not really. I think many women love a man who is strong, confident, protective of his woman, and who is sure of himself.

That "women want jerks" bs is spewed mostly by weak men who have low self esteem and can't score because they lack confidence, charisma, and strength!!!!

It is true many young girls go for the truly bad boys, but a lot of women grow out of that stuff.
 

RJI

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Girls love a "Bad Boy"

I like to consider myself a nice guy but with an edge and supreme confidence.
 

Crumbling

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IME...

If they call you a "nice guy" to your face and sound like they mean it.
It's either going nowhere, or if you were already somewhere... you're going to be single inside of a week.

This doesn't mean they want a bastard. It just means they don't want you.

Your mileage may vary.

S.
 

BigChaz

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I walk away from at least three explosions a day without looking back and have yet to find my soul mate. Pretty sure if that doesn't work then nothing works.
 

escapist

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Good link, although I'd've said the fella that Matt Damon's character was debating wasn't so much a bastard... more of a knobhead...:p:D certainly Matt Damon showed the successful, ruthless bastard right there tho'...:D

Oh just btw, slightly at a tangent to the thread - here's a link to an odd little comic about the Nice Guy vs. the "Nice Guy"... from one chick's POV anyhow...
http://www.gurl.com/showoff/comix/pages/0,,714667-2,00.html
Yep, pretty much what I'm talking about. No he wasn't "a bastard" because he lost. His character was such how ever that the moment he realized he lost the verbal judo match decided that he needed to toss out that he had money, and that made him more valuable than the guy he lost too. Why? Because, its self defense mechanism used by some to protect there own self-image; that they could never truly loose to someone of lesser value. In other words in the end he doesn't have to call the other guy a bastard, because he can't even conceive of him on that level.

Conversely think if he had won though. Pretty easy to see how he was a jerk (aka a bastard) for trying to use "how smart I am/how dumb are you" logic debates to lower someone else's social value. His buddy however stepped in (very cool move if you ask me) and preserved his friends value by blowing the other guy out and calling him out on his cheep tactics.


With your tangent topic, yeah that form of "nice-guy" is the guy who is willing to be an emotional-tampon. He will suck up all the crap, every ounce of stuff he should never touch, just on the hope that one day you will see what he perceives as "His true value" (being a REAL "nice-guy"). Its such a weak position the guy doing this has no clue who truly disgusting his tactic is. Often this is the same friend who is just waiting for that 1 chance he has in a time when you really need him to get into your panties. Its what he's been wanting from the first day he became your BFF/guy friend.

I had a friend once in that position. He deluded himself in ways I can't even fully compute. I advised him that he needed to tell the woman, "I'm sorry for what your going though, but I like you to much to hear about the other guys your dating. I don't want to be your Bestest-Friend, I want to be your boyfriend". He came back with, but I am her friend, I care, I have a duty as her friend to listen to it...bla, bla, bla, bla. I told him well enjoy your life in the friend zone. You are officially making yourself to "SAFE" to every be considered as something exciting and pursued....and guess what, I was right. Years later. She hardly even talks to him now. Even though there was a time she would call him in the middle of the night and he would rush over there to comfort her as her "truest friend". I don't know why he could admit to me he wanted to be her boyfriend, but not her. He couldn't get the logic that if he wanted to be her boyfriend he had to think like he was boyfriend material. Not BFF material, cause guess what. The moment she found a guy with a stronger attraction pull on her, she stopped calling. No more slumber parties, no more getting drunk, 1/2 naked make-outs with her "BFF"....PS this was a much old guy (I'm in my 30's) who by his own admittance "never gone there" with a girl.

Yes there is always the exception to everything, but on this one...probably not that often. If your a guy who thinks like this. Give it up now. Admit to yourself you want more than to be her BFF! You want the girl. I don't mean that in any trashy respects either. It can be with all the love and respect you feel she deserves. Answer me this though, if you think like that then doesn't she deserve to know how you really feel about it? If not in word, how about in deed? You don't have to go kneel and declare your love for her (never do that unless you have evidence of her attraction for you already) you can just start acting like a guy who is just the kind of strong confident man you feel she really deserves. Break free of the trap that leads you down a path where you will never get what you really want.



(how's that for going off on a tangent?)


Why would women want a bloke who cheats? ....

Evolutionary theory says it's cos his genes make him attractive to women.
And if the woman in question is able to pass those genes on to a son - who can potentially father thousands, in contrast with a daughter who can maybe mother a dozen or so - then her genes will be spread more widely.
That's the ("sexy son") theory anyway... and there's some supporting evidence....
http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/issues-ideas/catherine-nixey/whos-daddy

Of course natural selection doesn't select for "happy"... Just for "having many offspring"....
Yep, I've said it many times. Attraction does not care what you or anybody else thinks. It only cares what you feel! The stronger you feel it the more you care. This is why you can be strongly attracted to someone you almost HATE! An Attraction Artist (and those who are just pure naturals at creating attraction) will often use such things to their advantage and purposefully pump emotional states. Even if this means teasing playful banter, and worse "bastard" behavior. I personally believe the more use of "bastard" behavior the less they truly understand attraction.

I have heard horror stories of guy's who go in both gun's blazing in full bastard mode because they have pumped their own emotional states so they can blow out other guys and just DOMINATE everyone and everything in their path. Sure it can work, but OMG who really wants to be that guy at the end of the day, just to get laid? I can hardly imagine anybody would do that trying to create a life-long relationship. I'm sure if he is a cheater on top of all of it, it just adds to his "Bastard-Factor" attraction game.

I'm rather certain if swingers on this forum spoke about their openness you would find out that being open and honest rarely ever killed their attraction levels with anybody. If it did, it was probably with someone they didn't really want as a partner anyways due to miss-match of values. I'm sure its never hurt good ol' Heff.



All that said, Cheaters just kind of suck IMO. Just be honest about it with those you intend on having relationships with. Better to face the music from the start rather than trash someone else's life because you knew all along you were going to do it if the chance came up. If you don't like what that does with people you are courting, maybe you shouldn't court them...or maybe you should stop cheating all together?
 

escapist

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IME...

If they call you a "nice guy" to your face and sound like they mean it.
It's either going nowhere, or if you were already somewhere... you're going to be single inside of a week.

This doesn't mean they want a bastard. It just means they don't want you.

Your mileage may vary.

S.
Freaking hell, I LOVE THAT! Spot on my friend, spot on!

Usually guy's who are there or are going there forget that she has to feel some attraction for you rather early on. If she doesn't probably best to just move on. Sure sometimes it can be turned around, but not without learning some stuff you obviously missed in the first place. If you don't truly understand attraction, what it is and what it isn't, when you have it and when you don't. You have little chance of knowing how to flip the "reset switch" and start over (which is what you have to do). It is a totally do over, and worse; you now have experiences with her that tell her you are not dating/mate material. That is why its easier to move on.
 

Zowie

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My first boyfriend was a not-so-nice "nice guy" like in the comic. Anyway, he sent me this at one point, he was paranoid that I'd leave him for some "bad boy".

 

escapist

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My first boyfriend was a not-so-nice "nice guy" like in the comic. Anyway, he sent me this at one point, he was paranoid that I'd leave him for some "bad boy".

Can we say manipulative, creepy, and insecure? Many people fear the unknown. Sometimes in can become an all-consuming, self-fulfilling, prophecy. I do my best not to voice my insecurities (but nobody is prefect). I just know that letting to much of the seep out can be VERY unattractive.... in fact its more like an Attraction OBLITERATOR! EEK! :eek:
 

stldpn

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That "women want jerks" bs is spewed mostly by weak men who have low self esteem and can't score because they lack confidence, charisma, and strength!!!!
See I take issue with this because, well, I've been thought of as a bastard more than once for all the wrong reasons. I feel that weak men are a byproduct of the feminist revolution. Women scream and pitch fits when men aren't passive(witness any number of threads here on dims where I suggest that I'd rather lead a more traditional life with a wife who considers raising children a full time job), and then all too often they turn around and talk shit about passive men. I don't even want to think about how many times I've seen "nice" equated with boring. It's all very ridiculous. We would pity a woman who panders the same way some of these men do.

I say the key for men is finding a woman who lets them be themselves. Passive or Aggressive. Kind or dastardly. Mostly human.
 

Tracii

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I was married to one of those "douche nozzles" and to this day I don't regret kicking him to the curb.
 

KittyKitten

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Also, there are certain woman who go after men with issues in order to CHANGE THEM. They have that maternal instinct and feel sorry for the man and put up with crap hoping he will 'see the light'. LOL. They need to stop being heroines. You can't change a man, he can only change himself. The male equivalent in some circles is called, pardon me, 'Captain Save-a-ho'.
 

Zowie

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Also, there are certain woman who go after men with issues in order to CHANGE THEM. They have that maternal instinct and feel sorry for the man and put up with crap hoping he will 'see the light'. LOL. They need to stop being heroines. You can't change a man, he can only change himself. The male equivalent in some circles is called, pardon me, 'Captain Save-a-ho'.
Urg, I know too many girls like this.
"So how's the new boyfriend?"
"Oh, he's nice, but he's clinically psychotic, not taking medication for it, and has a meth problem."

Honest to god, real words from one of my classmates. WHY? The way I see it, there are tons of perfectly healthy, balanced, independent guys around, why do they feel the need to mother someone with baggage?

Hahaha, ATTRACTION OBLITERATOR. It sounds like a super-villain.
 

Tad

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At some point I clicked, or didn’t click, or something, and ended up on the mailing list for dating advice from a guy, I think the name was David Dangelo but I may have it slightly off. He of course is selling a system, but the newsletters gave you the basics, and it came down to:
1) be cocky and funny (but not mean)
2) never woo a woman, that is passing power over to her. Make her earn approval from you instead.
3) always keep in mind that there are plenty of fish in the sea, so never fixate on one who is not interested.

What I found interesting was that a couple of my friends, in their younger days, scored with a lot of women, and that was pretty much their approach. Interesting to me was that none of those women turned into long term relationships for them. Actually one of those guys was not a long ways off from being misogynistic, and I think it helped his ‘game’ that he didn’t really have any interest in impressing women for the long term, because he really didn’t care for their company that much outside of bed. He was actually quite honest about what he was looking for, and that seemed to work.

Actually, maybe honesty is the biggest key. I wonder if the defining characteristic of the ‘nice’ (but not really) guy is the lack of honesty. He acts nice because he thinks that is what will get him what he wants. Wouldn’t most people prefer to deal with someone who was honest, even if they weren’t acting nice? It is like when shopping, do you want the sales person who will tell you whatever they think you want to hear, in order to make a sale, or the one who will actually level with you? Personally once I realize I have one of the former I completely tune them out, and if they are too annoying I’ll leave the store just to make sure they don’t’ get a sale off of me.

I’m sure there is a lot to having that sort of big, dominating, personality, as Escapist was talking about. But I don’t think it is essential in dating. I really think that living with reasonable degrees of honesty about who you are and what you want, having enthusiasm for what brings you joy in life, and being willing to put effort into building a relationship rather than just pleasing the other person should be sufficient for most people. Just based on my experience and observations. No warranty express or implied. YMMV. One size does not fit all.
 

Sasquatch!

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One size does not fit all.
I dispute this. Outsize ponchoes.

I find I get on better with women when I'm cocky, though as has been pointed out that adds up to nothing if they don't find you attractive.
 

Lovelyone

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Girls love a "Bad Boy"

I like to consider myself a nice guy but with an edge and supreme confidence.
This coming from a guy who uses the ultimate super villain Heat Miser as his avatar. :p
 
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