Any Other BHM's trying to lose weight?

Discussion in 'BHM/FFA' started by michiganbhm, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. Oct 25, 2013 #201

    bigmac

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    Its not nearly that simple. A person's metabolism rate is not constant -- it varies greatly with activity level, intensity of activity, type of food consumed, and even the weather. Hunger can also vary greatly. A person's fat storage and fat utilization are also influenced by endocrine responses.

    Bottom line -- its almost impossible to get and remain thin by dieting. You can get leaner by exercising with enough intensity. However, its a lifelong commitment -- as many of us have painfully realized.
     
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  2. Oct 25, 2013 #202

    itjoe

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    Agreed. I'd focus more on strength training and slowly ramp up the cardio. I bought a road bike to make some fun out of it. Eat 1500-2000 calories per day and get 80-100g of protein, and you will get in better shape.

    I've been losing 2-3 lbs per week following that plan, and becoming noticeably stronger.
     
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  3. Oct 25, 2013 #203

    Geodetic_Effect

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    Influenced by endocrine responses? How about completely controlled by endocrine responses.


     
  4. Oct 27, 2013 #204

    fat hiker

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    Absolutely. There's a reason that 1200 calories a day is considered starvation or famine by the medical and relief communities - it is less than any healthy human should eat.

    I worked one summer in a lab with a woman who was on a 900 calorie a day diet. Her energy levels and enthusiasm just got lower and lower, until one day, a few weeks into the diet, she just collapsed in the lab. In the hospital, she was stabilised, and apparently one of the attending doctors chewed her out for even attempting to do a diet with so little energy in it.
     
  5. Oct 27, 2013 #205

    hedonistthinker

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    diets on low calorie alone are proved to always work. a professor even went months only eating oreos and twinkies and lost the desired weight to prove this point.

    will you lose some muscle? sure, but its not nearly as much as people think since the body never prioritizes protein as a source of energy even in starvation until most of the storae fat is depleted. if this worries you, concentrate your few calories on protein sources and do some weight training.

    will you gain it back? it depends. again the formula is constant only, the basal metaoblic rate changes once you lose weight but not too drastically. metabolism does slow down with less food, but not by more than few 100 calories in the worst case and a very heavy person has 2500 plus calories burned daily anyways. since you are eating far less for a month or so, your appetite may be more easily satisfied than before.
     
  6. Oct 27, 2013 #206

    hedonistthinker

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    its very difficult and obviously if you are not feeling well, priotitize treating that first. a safer way to this diet is to eat normally, say every 3 days. eat say 1800-2000 calories. in a week that can be treating yourself thursday and sunday. this way you can lose 4-6 pounds a week and not accumulate a harmful deficiency
     
  7. Oct 27, 2013 #207

    Geodetic_Effect

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    There are much better and more efficient ways to lose fat without starving yourself, and actually gain muscle at the same time. Your basal metabolic rate doesn't even matter. Hormones control everything.


     
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  8. Oct 27, 2013 #208

    Geodetic_Effect

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    Right now I am experimenting with adding intermittent fasting to a ketogenic diet. In the short term, urinalysis is showing it is having the desired effect. I'll continue playing with it to see how well it works in the long term.
     
  9. Oct 27, 2013 #209

    hedonistthinker

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    the endocrine system cannot create something from nothing. its that simple. UNLESS you have some severe disorder where the body breaks down lean tissue to make protein calories into fat, but healthy people do not need to worry about that.

    the main point of fat is emergency energy storage to begin with. the body keeps fat to use as fuel when glycogen and all stored carbs run out, learn tissue is never in the priority list. especially if you are 50 pounds overweight or more.

    instead of calling starvation, i would call it extended fasting :eat1:
     
  10. Oct 27, 2013 #210

    hedonistthinker

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    i already lost 6 pounds in 5 days on this diet. i dont expect you to take me as source of course, so i got you a link

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/

    and this is on an 1800 calorie diet of twinkies, not a balanced 1000 calorie diet and some light exercise as i recommend
     
  11. Oct 28, 2013 #211

    bigmac

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    Geodetic takes things to extremes but he's right when he asserts that low calorie diets do not work. You may loose pounds in the short-term but the failure rate for such diets approaches 100%.

    The only non-surgical way to loose weight and maintain the loss is total lifestyle change. This requires a lifelong commitment to a regime of fairly intense exercise (more intense than most people are willing to engage in) and the disciple to almost never eat junk (some amount of junk can be compensated for by increasing exercise intensity). Basically you pretty much have to live almost like the contestants on Biggest Looser.

    Very few people are able to do this -- hence the 95% long-term plus non-surgical weight loss failure rate. Personally I've been able to keep my weight down and fitness level up for several years at a time but life always intervenes and throws me off course. The one thing that I've never done is go on a reduced calorie diet -- thus I've maintained (or perhaps gained) muscle mass even as my total body weight has cycled. At 49 I'm considerably stronger than I was at 19 -- although I can't run nearly as fast or as far as I could back then.
     
  12. Oct 28, 2013 #212

    hedonistthinker

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    the fact you gain alot of the weight back is proof the diet actually worked, you just decided to go back to overconsuming calories. after any diet, you must make sure not to have a caloric surplus. if your view is that dieting fails because after the diet you go back to normal calorically abundant food habits, then of course most diets will fail. its simply math

    dont get me wrong, you are indeed right that most people gain all their weight back and some more within two years of a successful diet. but this is not the fault of the diet, but the post-diatery behaviour.
     
  13. Oct 28, 2013 #213

    bigmac

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    Some people just need to learn the hard way. Get back to us in five years.
     
  14. Oct 28, 2013 #214

    Geodetic_Effect

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    This literally made me lol

     
  15. Oct 28, 2013 #215

    hedonistthinker

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    if you are not willing to understand the science of adipose tissue, thats fine with me, but hurling claims and cute tales at one another isnt the least bit convincing.

    if you are willing to disprove what i mentioned. please explain how a person loses 27 pounds with no exercise and only twinkies,doritos and oreos for ten weeks, if weight loss is more than calorie deficit. by all means answer this.

    and lolling and self appeals of authority, dont count as evidence. please enlighten me.
     
  16. Oct 28, 2013 #216

    Geodetic_Effect

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    loling is fun. while speaking of logical fallacies, it is a fallacy of logic to think because someone lost weight eating twinkies in a caloric deficit that it somehow proves other methods wrong. It's also a pointless display, not a single person has ever disputed that calorie deficits result in temporary weight loss. Never said you couldn't lose weight that way, it's just the wrong way to do it. It's not my fault you don't do better research. Real world, long term results are the only proof I need. There is a ridiculous amount of scientific research to back up as well, but results are king.


     
  17. Oct 28, 2013 #217

    Geodetic_Effect

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    Cool story bro. You can lose 6 pounds in less than an hour. Short term means nothing. I've lost over 120 lbs and not one single day was I in a calorie deficit. Surplus everyday.

     
  18. Oct 28, 2013 #218

    hedonistthinker

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    if you didnt count calories how did you even know you were in surplus?

    im guessing you weighted over 300 in the past? well often enough , people over 300 pounds have basal metabolic rates above 3000 calories. a 300 pound man in an hour of cycling can burn anywhere within 500-almost 1000 calories an hour. this is not even addin regular daily activity which isnt resting, which can account for 100-500 calories which are often ignored as metabolic rate.

    thats 4500 calories (excluding whatever slight bump of metabolic burn you get from extra muscle tissue). now did you eat 4500 plus calories EVERYDAY? im not claiming you burned this, but a fat man with decent daily activity burns ALOT of calories and this is roughly a proof of that

    any diet thats successful is so because of caloric deficit. being unaware of the deficit or the diet focusing on something else doesnt change its cause. the other way is if you took some supplement which might hinder caloric absorption.

    skepticism is a forced choice here. i can either believe personal testimony which may be explained by miscounting or underestimating calorie math or deception (i dont believe this is the case) or i can go with the academic lterature, which pretty much argues, calorie consumption is the most important factor in weight loss/gain.
     
  19. Oct 28, 2013 #219

    Geodetic_Effect

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    At my heaviest I was 420 pounds. My daily caloric intake ranged from 6,000 to 10,000 kcal per day. I purposefully maintained an intake of 1,000 kcal above estimated caloric expenditure. The only supplement I took is ConcenTrace Trace Mineral Drops. Unless you count raw calve's liver, because that was my vitamin supplement. I even track the level of ketone bodies in my urine at least twice/day. My current regimen has me at a steady 160mg/dL at almost all times. You don't realize how thorough I am in my research and experimentation. The literature you are reading is incorrect in its assertion that only caloric deficits result in weight loss. There is plenty of scientific research that disputes this. There are thousands and thousands of people that get similar results with these methods, mostly bodybuilders. I have also repeated these results on several other people. There is also no rebounding with this method (slight amount of water weight returns when you come out of ketosis). This is due to the fact that ketogenic diets don't just empty the fat cells, they destroy them. There are no hormonal signals being sent by empty fat cells wanting to fill back up. Of course if you go back to old habits, you will gradually gain weight back, but with caloric deficits it comes back very, very fast.

    Side note: I kept track of calories purely for educational purposes and to make sure I ate enough to recover from heavy training load. I maintain that it is completely unnecessary if the sole goal is fat loss.



     
  20. Oct 28, 2013 #220

    Gingembre

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    Can someone clear up something for me...isn't a very low calorie diet a ketogenetic diet anyway? Because you're consuming so few calories that you're pushed over into ketosis? So aren't they botht he same thing regardless of whether you become ketotic through a low carb, high protein/fat diet or one that is just very low in calories overall?

    I'm not trying to be awkward, just seeking clarficiation. Or am i confusing very low calories diets with those that just put you at a mild deficit, meaning you don't actually engage in ketosis fully?
     

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