What's pissing you off today?

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lille

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There's fat shaming in one of my textbooks. I'm seriously considering mentioning being offended by it in my reflection journal I have to write even though what we're supposed to be reflecting on is the theory and exercises.
 

Yakatori

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Writing is a form of exercise. The real work product, the object of your labor, is not (just) what ends up on the page, but you. Your whole thought process.

If it's important enough (to you) to think about, then it's definitely worth writing.
 

lille

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Writing is a form of exercise. The real work product, the object of your labor, is not (just) what ends up on the page, but you. Your whole thought process.

If it's important enough (to you) to think about, then it's definitely worth writing.

This whole book is just pissing me off. While calling men with pot bellies unattractive they also compare women with sucked in flat bellies to adolescent girls as opposed to adult women and so only adolescent boys should be attracted to that. So basically guys that like women with flat stomachs are almost pedophiles... or something.
 

lille

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I did end up complaining about it in my journal. Maybe it wasn't the essential part of the reading but it was the part I had the strongest reaction to. One of my classmates also had a strong negative reaction and when I told her I was mentioning it in my journal she said she may mention it too. So knowing that I'm not the only one who was horrified makes me feel a bit better.
 

tankyguy

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This whole book is just pissing me off. While calling men with pot bellies unattractive they also compare women with sucked in flat bellies to adolescent girls as opposed to adult women and so only adolescent boys should be attracted to that. So basically guys that like women with flat stomachs are almost pedophiles... or something.

What's the title of the book?
 

tankyguy

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It's The Way to Vibrant Health: A Manual of Bioenergetic Exercises by Alexander and Leslie Lowen

Seems odd for what seems to be a book on yoga/new age relaxation techniques. Maybe some of the author's personal baggage coming through?
 

lille

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Seems odd for what seems to be a book on yoga/new age relaxation techniques. Maybe some of the author's personal baggage coming through?

Bioenergetics is one of the major theories in body oriented psychotherapy. These people are big names in the field. I understand that the book was written in the 70's, but still.
 

Amaranthine

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Bioenergetics is one of the major theories in body oriented psychotherapy. These people are big names in the field. I understand that the book was written in the 70's, but still.

It's one of the major theories, yet no one has made an updated/improved book since the 70s? Like...I do get that certain people can be very influential in fields and older material can be used supplementally. But...70s is really dated.

Also, given the topic - which I admittedly know nothing about - I don't see why they even need to talk about attraction in it, especially so negatively :confused:
 

lille

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It's one of the major theories, yet no one has made an updated/improved book since the 70s? Like...I do get that certain people can be very influential in fields and older material can be used supplementally. But...70s is really dated.

Also, given the topic - which I admittedly know nothing about - I don't see why they even need to talk about attraction in it, especially so negatively :confused:

Attraction wasn't necessary to mention at all. And the reason we're using a book from the seventies is that the author is the founder of that theory.
 

Yakatori

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For you to not focus so much on just learning material, only to then have to merely regurgitate it later. But to truly engaged with it, at more of a critical level. Build your own distinct & personal perspective off of the original text.

"Seems odd for what seems to be a book on yoga/new age relaxation techniques. Maybe some of the author's personal baggage coming through?"
Yeah, I was gonna say, that's often a fair or valid concern. Frankly, I think that has a lot to do with what initially attracts a lot of people to yoga-science, a rather crude, barely-conscious, & mostly ego-drive bizzaro formation of personal aesthetics. Which is really the total opposite of what it's all supposed to be about.
 

Tad

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I'd mentioned elsewhere that it was my wedding anniversary earlier this week. When we got married my wife was doing her masters degree, at the same university where she'd done her undergrad. She's Anglican while I'm nothing in particular, so we'd started going to the small Anglican chapel on campus, where the entire weekly congregation was under 20 people. We got to know the minister and his wife quite well, and you could not have known a more warm, loving, supportive couple of people. We really looked up to them as a model of good people and a good couple.

For our wedding it was a no-brainer that we'd have him marry us. My wife became friends with the two of them, and stayed in touch when we moved away a year later, and we even took our son down to be baptized by him.

In the evening of our anniversary, we discovered that the minister is now serving time in jail for having had sexual involvement with a few teenage boys (some years before we knew him).

Intellectually I know that a lot of abuses have happened when people have been given positions of authority with nobody looking over their shoulders, and in many cases it is 'the last person you'd ever think would do something like that.' We are far, far, FAR, from being alone in having this sort of experience.

All the same, I'm gutted. Someone I've looked up to really did something that I have no tolerance for, all the good that he did--and he did a lot of good--has been tainted, and some of it has probably unraveled. Their family has been torn apart. My feelings of being able to trust my own judgement of people is shaken. A lot of my happiest memories have been forever tainted to some degree. And of course, there are one or more people out there who probably really had their lives messed up by this, by the person they should have been able to trust the most.

A couple of days in and I'm a bit of a zombie, not having slept well and being distracted by thoughts that circle with no chances of finding answers.

I'm not sure if I'm more sad or pissed off, or just a general bundle of negative emotions..... call it :(:mad::eek::confused::shocked::huh::really sad::blink:
 
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Saisha

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your post....

Tad, I am very sorry to hear this happened - it can be devastating when someone we held in a position of trust on so many levels, falters in one of the worst ways possible. Just remember that what they did was and is not a reflection on you or your judgement.
 

Amaranthine

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I'm not sure if I'm more sad or pissed off, or just a general bundle of negative emotions..... call it :(:mad::eek::confused::shocked::huh::really sad::blink:

First off, congratulations on the anniversary! I'm sorry it had to be tainted by negativity like this, and I hope you get peace/some sense of resolution from those thoughts soon.

I...never know how to feel about things like this. It certainly wouldn't be correct to say that your feelings aren't justified. It's definitely unfortunate that his family got torn apart and that others suffered from the incident, either directly or indirectly.

But I don't think you can draw conclusions about the person himself as easily as many people do. It's easy to demonize (perhaps too strong a word, but I can't think of a better one) people when they do specific actions that are viewed as highly unethical and traumatic to others. The question is, does this necessarily make him a bad person? Assuming full knowledge of the implications of one's actions, is there a difference between a person who acts without restraint or care of the harm they do, and someone who suffers from periods of mental weakness after fighting to suppress something that may be unfortunately ingrained in their psychology? I like to think so, personally. In the latter case, one could always argue that that individual should have sought out professional help for the problem...but I'm sure that comes with a whole other barrel of emotional baggage to surmount.

So...could it be the case that he was just a "bad person" on some level, who appeared to be wholesome on the outside? Sure. But I also think it could be the case that he was, for the most part, a good person who may have been struggling with personal demons and desires.

It makes me think about the seemingly steep number of cases of religious figures being involved in underaged sex scandals. Are a lot of priests inherently immoral, uncaring people...or are they trying to use religion to cope with feelings that they're deeply ashamed of?

I'm not in any way trying to discredit your feelings or thoughts; just trying to provide an alternate perspective that may alleviate some of your feelings of doubting character judgment.
 

Hozay J Garseeya

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First off, congratulations on the anniversary! I'm sorry it had to be tainted by negativity like this, and I hope you get peace/some sense of resolution from those thoughts soon.

I...never know how to feel about things like this. It certainly wouldn't be correct to say that your feelings aren't justified. It's definitely unfortunate that his family got torn apart and that others suffered from the incident, either directly or indirectly.

But I don't think you can draw conclusions about the person himself as easily as many people do. It's easy to demonize (perhaps too strong a word, but I can't think of a better one) people when they do specific actions that are viewed as highly unethical and traumatic to others. The question is, does this necessarily make him a bad person? Assuming full knowledge of the implications of one's actions, is there a difference between a person who acts without restraint or care of the harm they do, and someone who suffers from periods of mental weakness after fighting to suppress something that may be unfortunately ingrained in their psychology? I like to think so, personally. In the latter case, one could always argue that that individual should have sought out professional help for the problem...but I'm sure that comes with a whole other barrel of emotional baggage to surmount.

So...could it be the case that he was just a "bad person" on some level, who appeared to be wholesome on the outside? Sure. But I also think it could be the case that he was, for the most part, a good person who may have been struggling with personal demons and desires.

It makes me think about the seemingly steep number of cases of religious figures being involved in underaged sex scandals. Are a lot of priests inherently immoral, uncaring people...or are they trying to use religion to cope with feelings that they're deeply ashamed of?

I'm not in any way trying to discredit your feelings or thoughts; just trying to provide an alternate perspective that may alleviate some of your feelings of doubting character judgment.

I was thinking of how to say this all day at work. I'm a vacuous motherfucker though, so I couldn't put it into words. Thank you Amaranthine for dictating my thoughts.
 

Yakatori

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"..It makes me think about the seemingly steep number of cases of religious figures being involved in underaged sex scandals. Are a lot of priests inherently immoral, uncaring people...or are they trying to use religion to cope with feelings that they're deeply ashamed of?"
The whole idea of troubled-people, criminals, etc.."finding religion," taking refuge in spirituality, is a fairly common theme in art (& life).

But, I think, what you're talking about here also probably has a lot to do with how, once upon a time, a position of religious leadership made for an effective beard of respectability for any otherwise aging & sketchy bachelor. And not just in predominantly Christian societies, but through other types of religious traditions as well:

(#t=26m41s)​
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_wkMWsbn08[/ame]
 

Amaranthine

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The whole idea of troubled-people, criminals, etc.."finding religion," taking refuge in spirituality, is a fairly common theme in art (& life).

But, I think, what you're talking about here also probably has a lot to do with how, once upon a time, a position of religious leadership made for an effective beard of respectability for any otherwise aging & sketchy bachelor. And not just in predominantly Christian societies, but through other types of religious traditions as well:

I do agree with that, yeah. I think there's a few ways it could be interpreted, some of which I surely haven't thought of yet.

1. As you said, the theme of people "finding religion" and turning over a new leaf. Something to give hope and help atone for past transgressions. I see this as more of a personal coping method and maybe a change in values.

2. Also as you said, as a beard of respectability. And maybe a "hiding in plain sight" kind of thing. I'm sure people have purposely misused the position, which would fall in the "devious bad person" category.

3. I think there's potentially one more big one, particularly relevant in the case of someone who deals with pedophilic desires and devotes their life to religion. But I'm not sure how to express it just right. Pedophilia is obviously illegal AND comes with a gigantic social and moral stigma. It's pretty much universally thought of as one of the worst sexual deviancies out there. Just going around Dims, you can find FAs who deal with some sort of guilt or hesitancy and fatties are legal as can be (thank the lord.) So I feel like someone who has these desires could feel so much shame and maybe even resentment? towards themselves that they seek a position where they can overcompensate for it. More than just a coping mechanism or a beard, it becomes "the good" to balance out the extreme "badness" that they perceive inside themselves?

Of course, as possibly demonstrated in some cases, this has the potential to backfire spectacularly. If that's even what's going on at all. Can't really say, but speculation is arguably worthwhile nevertheless.

Anyway, time to go and find me some juniper :cool:
 

Yakatori

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"...they seek a position where they can overcompensate for it. More than just a coping mechanism or a beard, it becomes "the good" to balance out the extreme "badness" that they perceive inside themselves?

Of course, as possibly demonstrated in some cases, this has the potential to backfire spectacularly...
"
Actually, I think this very type of dichotomy/dualism shows up in how a lot of different archetypes gravitate towards certain professions:
  • Person with a lot of emotional/relational problems => counselor/therapist
  • Juvenile deliquent/Bully => Law Enforcement
  • Food Addict/Body Issues => works around food/fitness
  • Alcoholic => wants to work-in/own a bar
  • Learning Disabled/ADD/Slow Learner => Academics/esoteric field of study
  • FireBug => FireFighter (volunteer, of course...)

Indeed, that potential is a curious thing...
 

Tad

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Thanks for the responses.

Amaranthine: exactly, and that is why is has been chewing up my thoughts so much. I'm not sure what I think and what I feel about it, and am trying to make sense of it, knowing the guy in the way that I did. Perhaps what I'm saddest about is that this could undo a lot of the good he has also done in his life. It's complicated, and I'm pretty sure he didn't go into the priesthood planning to do that sort of thing.... ah, blargh! too many thoughts.
 

agouderia

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My feelings of being able to trust my own judgement of people is shaken. A lot of my happiest memories have been forever tainted to some degree. And of course, there are one or more people out there who probably really had their lives messed up by this, by the person they should have been able to trust the most.

A couple of days in and I'm a bit of a zombie, not having slept well and being distracted by thoughts that circle with no chances of finding answers.

I'm not sure if I'm more sad or pissed off, or just a general bundle of negative emotions..... call it :(:mad::eek::confused::shocked::huh::really sad::blink:

Tad, I'm really sorry to read about this - that's a terrible experience.
What is worst for you and your family really is that your memories have been tainted, that wonderful events receive a bitter aftertaste.
That will recede over time, especially if you concentrate on the sweet and positive aspects of the memories.

Don't doubt your judgement. You can't tell from the outside what goes on inside someone else's brain, let alone in it's deepest recesses - because that's where the sexual desires, kinks or deviations are buried. Even someone's outward behavior is no clue or indicator as to those - it might well be that it's exactly the opposite. Being particularly good and positive could also be a way of hiding or subpressing unethical urges.

Ironically - I had to learn that lesson earlier this year with a story in a similiar vein, though without the hurtful personal implications.
A public official I had worked with on educational events relatively regularly for the past 8-10 years was fired for recurringly downloading paedophile porn on his office computer (incidentally from a Canadian company - they got busted and the customer data went public world wide). This official was one of the fussiest I had worked with, always insisting on following the most absurd regulations or digging up the most insidious legal aspects. Yet he went ahead and downloaded illegal material via a ministerial network.
When the dark part of a persons mind get's the better of him (or her), reason is lost.

Also - don't doubt your moral standards.

Everything Amaranthine wrote about the potential anguishes of a person fighting demons and not judging them only by their losing the fight is right. Still- you're entitled to drawing a line for yourself for an act which is beyond your personal moral reasoning.

There is a well justified reason why - even in a liberal society and after the sexual revolution - sexual involvement with minors or dependents is the last taboo. It's perfectly okay to not be able to extend tolerance to violating this taboo. It's also understandable that you expect a well educated person who deals with morality and ethics on daily level professionally to adhere to his standards even more than anybody else.

If you are well acquainted with the family and are still in regular contact with them - it might be an idea to reach out to them, show them you care and offer practical help. What's often the problem in such cases is that everything concentrates on the perpetrator and the victim(s) - and the perpetrator's family is either forgotten or taken into a sort of kin liability, even though they are innocent and suffering too.

Bon courage!
 
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