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bigmac

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That's why you're supposed to dress nice regardless of what you weigh. Nice clothes and looking spiffy is supposed to suggest how well off you are without anyone having to talk to you.

You mean my Target shorts and Walmart t-shirts (Target doesn't stock 3X and 4X men's shirts) won't cut it?

Also, I once had a date refuse to ride in my old 1987 F-150 because it was such a POS. However, when I picked my wife up for our first date she not only leaned over to unlock my door but she then slid across to the middle saying "a bench seat -- cool". So I pretty much knew she was a keeper from the get go.

Note: automatic door locks have ruined the time honored test of opening your date's door and then waiting to see if she'll reach across to open you'res. If she didn't game over.
 

tankyguy

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Over the years I've come to the conclusion that a very substantial percentage of the female population is indeed very shallow (I'm sure many men are too). If you want to get play you can't be more than a little fat and it also helps to be a bit of an asshole.
Yup. For volume, 'good looking, confident asshole' trumps 'overweight awkward nice guy' any day for most of the female population. For volume.

And by nice guy, I don't mean an extreme doormat who never sticks up for themselves; I mean an actual guy who is nice, easy going and tries to treat women right.

There is no doubt many people often confuse confidence and good looks with honesty and goodness.

I guess the best one can try for, unless you're willing to completely remake yourself into a good looking asshole, is to be confident despite being overweight and awkward and hope you stumble across a woman who is a cut above.

Speaking from personal experience, it's not an easy or terribly encouraging road to travel.


You mean my Target shorts and Walmart t-shirts (Target doesn't stock 3X and 4X men's shirts) won't cut it?
You have to work with what you've got, but I've saved up to wear custom tailored if it made me look as well dressed as guys who can find their size anywhere. It sucks that I had to pay through the eye to dress as well, and still not get results. But hey, no one said life was fair.
 

loopytheone

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While I do tend to agree with you on a certain level, you may be missing the crux of his point. For instance, if it is one particular shallow woman you're trying to win over by re-arranging who you are, then yes that is pointless and why bother?

However, if you are doing such to increase your dating pool and meet more women, thus having more options on dating and perhaps finding the one that will then click with your overall personality and from there a few lbs. in either direction won't matter, then that isn't necessarily going after shallow women.
I disagree with this so vastly...just because a person isn't attracted to people who have extra poudange doesn't make them shallow, it makes them a person with a preference. The women here tend to like men (and/or women) who are overweight and if they wouldn't want to date a thin person that doesn't make them shallow either. I used to think the same way until I realized that was a naive, romanticized, 'love conquers all' vision of people with no grounding in reality. People like what they like, it doesn't make them worse or better, it just makes them, well... human.
Because the number of people in the world who aren't attracted to and won't date someone who isn't close to the 'ideal' weight is much larger than the number of people who will. Hence "all the fat guys coming into the forum complaining that women aren't into them". Because by and large they're not.

Consider the possibility that those guys may not all just have confidence or self esteem issues. They could be funny, smart and engaging yet conventionally unattractive (which fat is for most people). The one thing you know they have in common is that they are fat and women aren't into them.

So if you don't want to be alone you either have to hope you find one of those exceedingly rare people who don't care about weight (or are into bigger people) or you have to lose weight like bigmac says and better your odds.

Like djudex says, people (and by extension women) like what they like and the vast majority don't like fat guys.
Or if you look around the rest of the boards, you'll find any number of attractive, interesting, with-it, BBW who are inexplicably single. Once you've fallen in love with someone, their size may not matter as much to you, but when you are scanning the room, wondering who you would like to know better....of course you are going to tend to favour the ones who make the best visual first impression on you.

Which is why my advice for those who don't fit the conventional mould is to meet lots of people in ways/places where you interact with them and get to know them (classes, volunteering, clubs, etc). That way people get to see other features of you, and may decide that your size is not the most important thing about you. Won't work for everyone, but I still think it gives you better odds.
Okay, I seem to have caused quite a stir with that opinion, which I wasn't expecting to be honest. I should point out that I'm not being rude when I call people shallow. But judging a person on the basis of something they can't readily change about their person - and weight is, in my opinion, one of those things - is shallow. Because you are judging on the basis of appearance and not personality. I don't see how it can be argued otherwise. I'm not saying it is a bad thing. You are perfectly entitled to find people attractive based on whatever criteria you like. Most people go by appearance. It is common, it is perfectly acceptable, it is biologically valid and it is shallow. Given that I have very little time for people outside of select few I have no interest in talking to people who are shallow. Because it stands to reason that if you are shallow picking you partner you are shallow picking your friends and that's not cool with me.

As for Tad's advice to go out to places where you interact with people... isn't that advice for everybody, bigger or not? I mean, I wouldn't touch a guy with a barge pole if he came up to me in a club and just wanted to get with me because he liked the way I look. I would only date people that know me and like me as a person first. I think that people who are overweight tend to place too much emphasis on their size as the route of all their problems...

I wouldn't want to date a shallow person. Indeed I'm married to a woman who's not (most of the time;)). However, that doesn't change the fact that there are very few women out there who will accept advances from fat guys let alone actually seek them out. Over the years I've come to the conclusion that a very substantial percentage of the female population is indeed very shallow (I'm sure many men are too). If you want to get play you can't be more than a little fat and it also helps to be a bit of an asshole.
Well I'm not exactly the person people come to for advice when they want to play the field! =p To be honest, I think that there are a lot of factors other than being fat that can lead to a person being turned down all the time like that. I mean, I have great friends, they are lovely and wonderful, but one of them only ever had one person show any interest in him and the other has literally never pulled a woman or had a relationship in his life. And they are both lean, fit men and aren't shy of asking people out. Not to mention that most women will turn down most men. I mean, I turn down almost everybody and always have. Fat, thin, short, tall, blond, brunette... but if the fat guys I turn down blame it on them being fat without checking with me first then to them they will have more 'proof' that it is their weight that is the problem when it really wasn't that at all.
 

Esther

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I should point out that I'm not being rude when I call people shallow. But judging a person on the basis of something they can't readily change about their person - and weight is, in my opinion, one of those things - is shallow. Because you are judging on the basis of appearance and not personality. I don't see how it can be argued otherwise. I'm not saying it is a bad thing.
o rly

I'm not being funny here, but why would you want to date a person so shallow that they are put off by 30lbs of weight? I wouldn't want to date a single person that didn't find me attractive at my biggest, my lightest, anywhere in between, because it shows they are a shallow person. I mean, surely it is about the quality of women you are attracting rather than the quantity?
HMMMMMMMMMMM
 

loopytheone

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o rly

HMMMMMMMMMMM
Perhaps you should try talking in full sentences because then maybe I'd be able to understand what point you were trying to make. No, being shallow is not a bad thing. But not being shallow is a good thing. In the same way that having a mental illness isn't a bad thing. But not having a mental illness is a good thing, both for that person and likely for ease of relationships.
 

Amaranthine

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Perhaps you should try talking in full sentences because then maybe I'd be able to understand what point you were trying to make. No, being shallow is not a bad thing. But not being shallow is a good thing. In the same way that having a mental illness isn't a bad thing. But not having a mental illness is a good thing, both for that person and likely for ease of relationships.
Heh, this might be nit-picky, but isn't mental illness bad by definition? At least from the perspective of the person with it, I'd say it's most certainly negative. Schizophrenia, depression, OCD. I believe they're all bad for the person with them, and imagine they would agree.

I suppose it's more of a question whether it's bad for a potential romantic partner. I have a feeling that my input here might be taken rather badly. But if it's untreated, I'm going to say it's definitely bad. Knowing the symptoms of schizophrenia and knowing people with the disease, would untreated schizophrenia make me question dating a person? Yes. Similarly, I HAVE dated people with depression. And is it bad? Honestly, yes. Not that I didn't love them and try my damnedest to be supportive and understanding. But I think it's just a fact that something like that will likely impact a relationship at some point.

Now, if someone is actively trying to manage it, should you not date them? Of course not. Even if they're not really seeking treatment, a relationship can still be feasible, sure. But I find it difficult to view it as merely neutral. With every relationship there's a set of flaws you're going to have to accept...and I think mental illness can be one of them. And I'm not saying it's anyone's fault or that someone with a mental illness should be viewed negatively or as bad. Certainly not. But characterizing mental illness itself as bad is totally different from that.

That was probably excessive. But 4:30 and energy drinks are a bad combination...so really, that's just my over-energetic musings.
 

BearHug2013

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It might've simply been a bad example on her part but the original point is still valid.
Shallowness itself is not bad, but when it's someone's sole criteria for there romantic life..there not doing themselves any favors.
 

Amaranthine

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It might've simply been a bad example on her part but the original point is still valid.
Shallowness itself is not bad, but when it's someone's sole criteria for there romantic life..there not doing themselves any favors.
Oh, I certainly agree with that. There's far more to any good relationship than physical attraction, and it'd surely be a mistake to mainly judge off that. I'm just bored :rolleyes:

Though. I think the goodness of "not being shallow" depends on the context. When I've attempted to not be shallow in certain relationships (that meaning pursuing despite lack of physical attraction), I would honestly say the sexual element suffered. And a lot of guys probably aren't eager to accept that. But yes, generally, I would agree.

Right. Time to get to sleep >.>
 

loopytheone

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Heh, this might be nit-picky, but isn't mental illness bad by definition? At least from the perspective of the person with it, I'd say it's most certainly negative. Schizophrenia, depression, OCD. I believe they're all bad for the person with them, and imagine they would agree.

I suppose it's more of a question whether it's bad for a potential romantic partner. I have a feeling that my input here might be taken rather badly. But if it's untreated, I'm going to say it's definitely bad. Knowing the symptoms of schizophrenia and knowing people with the disease, would untreated schizophrenia make me question dating a person? Yes. Similarly, I HAVE dated people with depression. And is it bad? Honestly, yes. Not that I didn't love them and try my damnedest to be supportive and understanding. But I think it's just a fact that something like that will likely impact a relationship at some point.

Now, if someone is actively trying to manage it, should you not date them? Of course not. Even if they're not really seeking treatment, a relationship can still be feasible, sure. But I find it difficult to view it as merely neutral. With every relationship there's a set of flaws you're going to have to accept...and I think mental illness can be one of them. And I'm not saying it's anyone's fault or that someone with a mental illness should be viewed negatively or as bad. Certainly not. But characterizing mental illness itself as bad is totally different from that.

That was probably excessive. But 4:30 and energy drinks are a bad combination...so really, that's just my over-energetic musings.
Well as somebody with a personality disorder, an anxiety disorder and severe recurrent depression who is dating somebody with similar problems, would I say it is a bad thing? No. Because those aspects are part of who we are as a person. They can be treated, they can be managed but these things always affect the way you think underneath and I don't think that is a bad thing. I think it is a neutral thing. It makes you different from a lot of people but not worse than them. I suppose what I am trying to say is that mental illness is a painful thing to go through and it will need constant treating and care as with any chronic illness. But in the same way that I wouldn't say being in a wheelchair is bad, I don't think mental illness is either. I agree that it is easier on a relationship to be with a person who is not mentally ill, hence me saying that not being mentally ill is a good thing. I get the feeling I am rambling now and not explaining myself very well so i am going to be quiet now!

It might've simply been a bad example on her part but the original point is still valid.
Shallowness itself is not bad, but when it's someone's sole criteria for there romantic life..there not doing themselves any favors.
Yes, this! I was trying to think of an example and that was all that my early morning brain could come up with unfortunately! I don't think being shallow is something a person can change about themselves and I don't think it is a bad thing. But it is a good thing to look beneath the surface of people and find out how awesome they are.
 

loopytheone

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Though. I think the goodness of "not being shallow" depends on the context. When I've attempted to not be shallow in certain relationships (that meaning pursuing despite lack of physical attraction), I would honestly say the sexual element suffered. And a lot of guys probably aren't eager to accept that. But yes, generally, I would agree.

Right. Time to get to sleep >.>
Sorry for the double post, forgot to answer this! :doh:

There is a difference between naturally not being shallow and trying to force yourself into a relationship with a person you don't find attractive. If you don't find them attractive then the relationship wont work. I think I am going to leave my comments on attraction at this though, because as an asexual I'll be honest, I really struggle to understand about raw sexual attraction between people.
 

ODFFA

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Topic change. Hanging bellies.

Go.
For the most part, hell yes! Squishiness. It's all about the squishiness. A belly must, after all, be properly motorboatable too.

BHMs, how do you like your own (hanging?) bellies? Do they cause any day to day frustrations? Have you made any discoveries of amusing/fun things that can be done with them?
 

loopytheone

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Topic change. Hanging bellies.

Go.
Oh gosh yes! Soft and squishy and warm and kissable and squeezable.... hard bellies do nothing for me I'm afraid! I'm lucky my partner has such a big, soft, chubby tummy! :wubu:
 

djudex

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Do they cause any day to day frustrations?
God damn shirts that are supposed to be 4XLT and still tug out of the waistband of my slacks when I do anything as strenuous as breath deeply. I know ladies on here have asked before why us fat guys wear our pants so high and cover our belly hang, that's why. My kingdom for a well designed t-shirt!

Have you made any discoveries of amusing/fun things that can be done with them?
Aside from using it as an emergency table? Not really. It's kind of like those old silicon squishy toys that were the rage back in the 90's, fun to moosh around and makes funny shapes with but not overly practical.
 

sophie lou

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Topic change. Hanging bellies.

Go.
I couldn't resist this one. I have a friend who is on the way to becoming a lot more who is a BHM. He is wonderful and knows all about how much of an FA I am. This is great for me because I can have lots of belly time whenever I want it. I have never motorboated him but he has done it to me several times. I'm sure if I ask him he will let me try and see what it is like. I love the soft squishyness of his belly.
 

BearHug2013

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For the most part, hell yes! Squishiness. It's all about the squishiness. A belly must, after all, be properly motorboatable too.

BHMs, how do you like your own (hanging?) bellies? Do they cause any day to day frustrations? Have you made any discoveries of amusing/fun things that can be done with them?
Ok maybe it's because I'm new and all, but I feel like I'm in the twilight zone:huh:
Hmm, frustration...well it can be a pain find the right shirt that fits well. Oh and I Guess the school day disparaging remarks from my school days that randomly pop in my head:doh:
 

Amaranthine

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For the most part, hell yes! Squishiness. It's all about the squishiness. A belly must, after all, be properly motorboatable too.
I...had not thought of this. Though I have to agree, squish is where it's at.

Does anyone else enjoy cuddling up and using a belly for a pillow? So much comfier :happy:
 

reuben6380

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The belly in or out of the pants is always a bit of bit of a conundrum. On one hand the style of the day is to have a lower waistline but it looks abit sloppy to just "let it all hang out" especially if the shirt isnt quite long enough and it peaks out of the bottom. But conversely, if you have pants that fit well and go around your natural waistline, while more proffesionl, you look shorter and they give you that oldman look. I site the example of the major of new jersey, I'm pretty sure he was born without a torso :D
 

BigChaz

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The belly in or out of the pants is always a bit of bit of a conundrum. On one hand the style of the day is to have a lower waistline but it looks abit sloppy to just "let it all hang out" especially if the shirt isnt quite long enough and it peaks out of the bottom. But conversely, if you have pants that fit well and go around your natural waistline, while more proffesionl, you look shorter and they give you that oldman look. I site the example of the major of new jersey, I'm pretty sure he was born without a torso :D
Ah yes, the classic conundrum. Wear pants above the belly (and now you have to wear a much large size and larger belt) and look like a beach ball getting cut in half when you sit down.

Wear pants below the belly and need shirts that are gigantic in order to be able to cover it all and stay tucked in. Now people also think you are sloppy. I have a huge belly hang and when I walk, well honestly, waddle, my lower belly basically bounces up and down / sways all around and I think most people find that less pleasing than over the belly.

I think belly shape / type / jiggle factor all must be taken into account in the over/under debate.
 
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